9 replies to this topic

[Pontes1]

Hy .

I am on a mission to make one of these small set ups to be able to adjust some even small timing .

Let say that i would like to have something similar to the Parma Rotor steups .

But i was looking to this small motors and i tried to move the endbell slightly to either way but is rather hard to do it , even if i open some wider holes in the cans the endbell does not move around.

 

Has anyone already tried this that can give a clue how to handle this endbell issue ?

 

I can explain that i need to try to use higher spec armature in it , and this all are with higher timing than desired , so my need is to lower the timing so the low power track can handle them ,  as one example armatures like ( Koford G12 for   hawk 30º,  PS Big Dog  25º , etc .. In our track  12,5 V - 4 Amp .  those armatures run but take too long to get to the rpm .. because of timing . Armatures like Hawk 3031 with 20º timing run very well .

 

So my need is  les timing   

If some one has tried it before  like to know some ideas how to do it with these litle motors ???

thanks 

 

[havlicek]

Hi Fernando,

 

     There's really not much room to modify the Hawk to be able to turn it into a "rotor" type setup.  If you look at the end bell flange, it's underneath the top and bottom can straps when fully seated and prevents the end bell from rotating.  Normally, that's a very good thing, because it makes for a tight and secure fit.  To allow the end bell to rotate, you would have to remove those two portions of the can, or trim the end bell flange on the top and bottom enough to allow it to clear the can.  After doing that, the holes in the can for the screws would have to be made into slots with a small diameter cutter.  

[swodem]

I would suggest your gearing may be wrong. The gearing needs to suit the armature. Changing the timing isn't the solution, gear the arm as you would in its normal can.


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[havlicek]

I would suggest your gearing may be wrong. The gearing needs to suit the armature. Changing the timing isn't the solution, gear the arm as you would in its normal can.


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Things might improve for him with different gearing, but on the other hand, that doesn't say that adjusting timing wouldn't help in his case.  Put another way, is it the case that the stock motor is always right for all situations?  Has the "rotor" type setup been useful for D motor racers?  Anyway, the Hawk *could* be made to work that way, even though it wasn't designed that way.  It's just that there's less room to work on such a small motor.

[Samiam]

The Pro-Slot 16-D also has provisions for timing adjustments. I haven't raced any of these unsealed so I have no tuning experience. Is there a rule of thumb when it comes to track power and timing?

[havlicek]

I think that, simply stated, you mess with timing until (or unless) things work better Sam.  Racers will have better information, but these things don't always work out the way you expect because of competing factors.  Track power is one, but chassis weight, gearing and gear mesh (Philippe posted about getting a correct gear mesh some years ago, and I suspect that a lot of people don't get this right), track type, body..."whatevah".  Timing itself doesn't provide a free lunch and really high timed motors can have negatives that offset speed (RPMs) increases.  Getting that winning combination (*probably secondary to actual driving skill) is something that racers are skilled at.  

[Big Booty]

What are you trying to achieve?  I usually play around with the timing to maximize the area under the torque/rpm curve.  That is, make your adjustment, measure the no load RPM and stall torque.  Multiple the two to get a number.  The bigger the number the better.  I then gear to suit the track.  Conversely if you run in a class with fixed gearing (and tyre diameter) and are lacking bottom end torque then retard the timing.  Or if you are lacking top end then advance the timing. 

[Ramcatlarry]

4 amp power supply?  You need to upgrade the track for hotter motors.  We usually figure 10 amps PER LANE is adequate for commercial class motors.  The Proslot motor DOES come in homeset friendly style as well - PS 4000 and 4001 with lower power needs and output.  These were INTENDED to snap in to plastic cars to hotrod the FC130 motor boxes...AND RUN ON low power tracks.

[Bazzie]

In-rush current into a group 12 motor can be substantial, I started with a 35A software fuse and would occasionally get it to trigger on start. I had to write some interesting logic into the software to avoid that, and eventually went to a 50A sensor


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[Ramcatlarry]

Changing the timing is not the problem trying to use these bigger gauge armatures.  A four amp power supply for four lanes never works for motors with larger than #32 wire.  Commercial motors like you are suggesting are #30 gauge..or larger.

 

Four amps to the track is like American 'restrictor plate nascar' - you are limiting the power to the motor to slow it down  or using a single barrel carburetor on a quad weber racecar.