15 replies to this topic

[gatormark]

Recently at our GTP class race I heard a racer comment that my Renegade body was a CHEATER body. After I beat him I replied that just because one series in Fla has yet to approve it ( and they will) the general consensus of most racers and the Flexi Series on a Nationwide basis approve of the body. I believe out of 18 entries at fast eds last week ALL 18 were Renegades? BTW the same cat complaining was running a fox body, and my buddy ,using a lender car from me WITH A FOX BODY also came in ahead of the complainer. So much for that argument.

[DOCinCanton]

The FSCS will most likely never approve the Renegade body. Most rule sets have a max car width of 83mm (use to be 3.25" for several decades). The Renegade is 87mm wide. That is why that racer called it a "cheater" body. 

 

Having said that, the design of the body is outstanding. Along with the 87mm width, the Renegade appears to be unbeatable.

[Ramcatlarry]

The fundamental laws must be obeyed or there is only anarchy and bullies.

[DOCinCanton]

If you do not have a clear set of rules, or do not enforce those rules, or allow the racers do whatever they want to, you will never have a long running series. The series will die as one by one the main stream racers leave. Whether its a state wise series, or regional, or local weekly racing, the series will end in chaos and turn into "run-what-you-brung". All car classes will end up being a form of wing cars. I say this as a racer myself!

[gatormark]

Well, its good enough for the Flexi Nat Series its good enough for us. hell fire each track seems to have its owns edition of rules for THEYRE IN HOUSE races ie F group motors being hawk 7 and the so called seale pro slot mini motor. 

[Samiam]

The max width of 3.250" or 83mm has been around for quite some time and universally accepted around the world. It's a steep slippery slope if cars are allowed to exceed basic standards of slot racing. We can end up with John Cauthen's ideas for the ultimate slot car.

 

I have a RTR Warrior GTP body and it is only 3" wide. The Renegade being 87mm or 3.42".??? Was this on purpose or just an oversight?   I think all Ralph Thorne has to do is modify the body plugs being used to pull the bodies. Just bring both bodies to the worldwide accepted standard of 3.250/83mm and this controversy is over.  

[Eddie Fleming]

In my opinion the width was not a mistake and Ralph is selling them like hot cakes.

 

I think Ralph pretty much created and runs the National Flexi Series.

[dalek]

I'd be interested to see how it plays out if someone comes out with a body that out-Renegades the Renegade.

 

Where will the GTP body war (wider, deeper, longer) end?

 

[DOCinCanton]

​Concerning Mark's post #5 above. I deleted a part of mark's statement concerning the Hawk 6 motor and the FSCS. We do expect racers to open up the motor and have fun. A well prepped Hawk 6 can still be beaten by a good Hawk 7. The directors of the FSCS listened to numerous racers who wanted to have one car class whereby they could work on  motors. The Hawk 6 is the best buy in slot cars where you can balance the arm and true the comm and replace the motor brushes. You can do this on a good Hawk 6 motor until the comm tabs out during the last trueing. Just costs $18, I think. Definitely, the best buy of motors.

[gotboostedvr6]

Can you tell the difference between a 4002fk and a hawk6 arm?

[DOCinCanton]

Following up on Dale's post above: The Renegade is 87mm (3,425") wide. Way beyond any rules at the time. So now, what if someone comes out with a body that is 4.00" wide. Should we all follow like sheep and start to race it; change the rules to allow it? Then what if someone comes out with a 4.75" wide body; again should we start to race it. It will quickly get to the point where no body will be able to pass anyone even on the straights. Where does it end?

[DOCinCanton]

David: if that question was aimed at me, here it is: I think that the PS4002FK motor is faster than the Hawk 6. The 4002FK has better magnets and probably a hotter wind (but I do not know that for sure). With the not-sealed Hawk 6, you can open it up and fix the brush hoods, sent it out for balancing, etc. Its a very fun motor to work on, but can also be very frustrating if you cant get the results that you expect. 

 

If you mean visually, I have not looked at them very closely; especially the FK arm. I will take a very close look at this matter now.

[Fast Freddie]

A little tech for you guys.  The PS4002FK arm has 65 turns of 30 wire on a .400 long stack.  The Hawk 6 arm has 72 turns of 30 wire on a .390-.400 long stack.  It would seem the PSFK with less wire should be better.  As for the "tin can" motors the HR has 65 turns of 30 wire on a .390 long stack while the Hawk 7 has 61 turns of 30 wire on a .375 long stack.  In this case the Hawk 7 should out perform the HR motor.

 

One thing I learned early on is that while there is virtually no outward difference in the JK Hawk 6 and the JK Hawk there is a difference in the arm and the magnets they use.  The JK Hawk 6, as stated above, uses an arm with 72 turns of 30 wire on a .390-.400 long stack.  It also has Neo magnets.  While the JK Hawk motor uses an arm with 65 turns of 30 wire on a .390-.400 long stack. This motor uses ceramic magnets.  This motor also shows a nominal timing of 20 degrees while the Hawk 6 doesn't show any nominal timing.  I have cross built these two motors and you'll be surprised at the results as I was.  In my case what I ended up getting was a faster version of an HR motor that I could rebuild since the specs for the HR arm and the JK Hawk arm were almost the same plus an extra 5 degrees of timing in the Hawk.

[Justin A. Porter]

Ralph has made a fantastic GTP body but it's no magic bullet. This is not to take anything away from him, but in the Ohio Challenge Cup the Renegade has only won one of three races with the O/S Bentlee having won the other two.

If we break it down to podiums it goes two RTR Renegades, two O/S Bentlees, three Red Fox Scale Fighters, a RTR Warrior and a Parma Lola.

While I am in full agreement that some form of "dimensional template" is in order to prevent GTP bodies from growing in further exaggerated fashion, I would be remiss in pointing out that the facts don't seem to point to the Renegade being nearly so all-conquering.

[DOCinCanton]

Justin, I like facts and you got them. thanks. However, I am still thinking that the overall design of the Renegade is the best that I have seen.

[gatormark]

Regarding the hawk six, you can play with the magnets too,in more ways than one. Anyway, I run the renegade here and the Fox because? I like them. If I race in a series that wont allow them I will conform to the rules.