33 replies to this topic

[FBON]

On eBay a K&B Aurora Batmobile NMIB sold for $6,450. A week later a second one NMIB sold for $6,100. Both had minor flaws (broken windshield, missing chrome stickers) but still were in high demand. I think only twelve exist in the box. Did this break a record for slot car prices?

A friend told me it moved so slow it could not climb a slanted curve, which I guess low demand made it rare. I like the box graphics a lot.

[TSR]

Hi Frank,

We GUESSTIMATE that there are between 12 and 24 still left relatively intact. The prices recently realized appear to be twice current market value, probably due to two guys doubling their bids in an attempt to make sure of getting it. Very common on ePay and other non-live auctions.

The car was in fact plenty fast, assuming that someone did not adjust the gears so tight that they could hardly move! The motor was powerful and the speeds reached would embarrass just about any and all modern plastic slot cars.

The reasons why there are so few are quite simple:
1) As with the "Green Hornet", the original "Batman" TV series was cancelled just about when the slot car was produced.
2) K&B pulled out of the slot car market shortly after the model, the last they made, was issued. So VERY FEW actually left the works...
3) The car is a B*TCH to assemble, especially the dome light and connections. Production costs exceeded possible profit.







No doubt that a pristine car in a pristine box as the one above could be worth the $6,000 bid

But these are not, and by far, the highest prices ever paid at auction. The highest ePay price ever paid for a slot car was for a rather scarce Cox Chaparral 2E "Mag" kit, a cool $12,600, in 2002. The highest PRIVATE sale I know of was $19K for a box and a car... an actual Cox prototype of the never-produced Ford Mk2 and the only original box known to exist. It went to Japan in 1998.

[Horsepower]

They WERE fast and I remember several guys racing them around Turek's Hillclimb at full bore.

If that one isn't fast it because like PdL said the gears are too tight or it has thrown a winding.

[FBON]

That's exciting news to hear it was actually fast as the Batmobile should be. I will have to tell my friend. He took his to a racetrack a few years ago and it drew a crowd. But he said it was so slow. So maybe the problem was they had to be adjusted out of the box.

Also the one picture (beautiful!) has the bat decals applied. Now did dealers apply the decals and stripes before they sold them? The Batmobile was delivered to dealers with the decals and a roll of pinstripes unapplied and a protective cardboard sleeve stamped "Batmobile" with an ID number.

Here is the auction with a lot of fascinating history on the K&B Batmobile and train motor.

K&B Batmobile history

[TSR]

Now did dealers apply the decals and stripes before they sold them?

No.

The Batmobile was delivered to dealers with the decals and a roll of pinstripes unapplied and a protective cardboard sleeve stamped "Batmobile" with an ID number.

Correct. These sleeves are even harder to find than a boxed car! If your friend has one, it is a real prize and increases the value of the toy.

[FBON]

Is it possible the K&B Batmobile had two different motors?

I told my friend about it and he replied

Frank,

Interesting, but I totally disagree with him. I remember when they came out that they were very slow, almost like they were too heavy, and the Cortina brakes didn't work properly and slowed them down as well. Of course, that was 42 years ago, but it's funny how I remember it like it was yesterday. I also think he is mistaken about assembling the light as I remember it came already assembled. And that was another reason it was slow. The light was a "grain of wheat" bulb (no LEDs back then!) which drew some current away from the motor, which slowed it down, too.

The guys who were racing the Batmobiles that the other guy remembers probably "souped them up" somehow. I just remember how everyone at the track used to make fun of it and say how slow it was. I don't think mine was dragging because of the gears being too tight, but I didn't make any adjustment on it. I think it used a Mabuchi motor, which was a very fast motor at the time. I just think the combination of the brakes and the light slowed it down a lot. Mine would not make a banked turn because it was too slow.

BTW, that's a pretty cool site. I should join. I wonder if they ever heard of my Sonic Needle slot car in Flaming Orange! Someday I hope to have a 1/24 slot car track and have lots of questions...

[Horsepower]

Your friend must have had one of the Batmobiles by another manufacturer, especially if it had the Mabuchi motor. K&B made one but also Classic Industries and BZ made them.

[TSR]

Is it possible the K&B Batmobile had two different motors?

Nope.

[don.siegel]

In any case, the K&B Hellcat and the two other Mabuchi 36D motors would all be about comparable in speed, unless somebody got stuck with a lemon. We've run the Hellcat a lot in the Blue Monster and it's got decent, but not earth-shattering speed. But it was surely enough to get around a bank, unless the tires were totally wrong for the track, or the brake was locking up, as mentioned earlier.

Depending on when the car was bought, it may just have seemed very slow compared to the better scratchbuild cars around the local raceway, especially if there were some good local rewinders!

Don

PS: The price sounds more like a Batman collectible than a slot car collectible...

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

And it is slower than an ordinary AMT!

I think the Batmobile owner misunderstoop P's point. The car was an RTR, but the way he read the post, I think P was talking about the cost of assembling it at the "factory".

The sad part is that these cars have become valuable, too valuable for a vintage race.

And race cars should be raced, even the bad ones.

Fate

[mdiv]

Amen, Fate.

Keep it simple, straightforward.

Mikey

[FBON]

Your friend must have had one of the Batmobiles by another manufacturer...

No, he definitely does have the K&B.

Maybe his was slow because it needed adjustment out of the box.

Has anyone here personally owned and raced one fast out of the box?

[mdiv]

Frank:

I don't have any experience with that particular chassis - I know one guy that has one and he LOVES it and likes to show it off!

Mikey

[FBON]

My friend replied:

Frank, OK, my mistake on the type of engine. Mabuchi was the "buzz word" back then, and I just assumed it made the Hellcat for the Batmobile. I did some research and discovered: 1) Hellcat was made in the USA by K&B, originally for a train (which might explain why it was slow!) and adapted later for about two or three slot cars, including the Batmobile, 2) Hellcat was a heavy engine which caused the slot car to tip over in a tight, fast corner. Here's some quotes I found: The Hellcat was a late production of K&B, and it was a made in USA motor, not a Mabuchi, sized somewhere between the 26D and 36D, closer to the latter. They were all black if I remember right. According to PdL, they were a model train motor, adapted to racing. It was used in the Blue Monster, the Batmobile, and maybe one other K&B model. Both the Hellcat and the Mabuchi FT36 are hefty mills, and it is difficult to build a car that will not 'tip" when cornering at the limit.

-slotcartalk.comChris

My guess - it seems like the all the Cortina brakes were stuck and the fast K&B Batmobiles must have had the brakes adjusted by the customer.

[FBON]

Has anyone here personally owned and raced one fast out of the box?

I meant to say:

Has anyone raced a K&B Batmobile and it was fast without having to fix it?

[mdiv]

Maybe the other guys took off the Cortina brake! Ack! My red wire is not connected!!!

Mikey

[FBON]

The car was in fact plenty fast, assuming that someone did not adjust the gears so tight that they could hardly move! The motor was powerful and the speeds reached would embarrass just about any and all modern plastic slot cars

Hi TSR,

Did you see it race in 1966? Was it fast without alterations?

Tom Graham's Aurora slot car book said its train motor was slow. That the K&B president said it had low sales because it was a "poor racer." It didn't make sense to me K&B would put a slow motor unless it was to save money because of royalties.

Did all K&B's have Cortina brakes and were slow?

For decades I heard the K&B Batmobile was too slow so it's good to hear others say it was fast. Maybe some motors were lemons or a malfunction in the Cortina brakes?

[TSR]

The motor was just as good as a standard Mabuchi FT36. Several other K&B cars used the same motor and they had plenty of speed: the "Blue Monster" (a McLaren-Elva with a stamped aluminum sidewinder frame), the Mako Shark with the Kanguroo die-cast frame both ran fine. I drove a Mako not too long ago and it was just fine.

The rarity of the Batmobile has nothing to do with its speed but with the period of time it was produced, when the whole industry was effectively collapsing. The last two K&B stock numbers are that of the Batmobile and the Ford Mk2, both excessively rare today, because the demand for new slot cars of this kind was simply gone. Look no further.

[don.siegel]

There was also the connotation of motors like the Mabuchi being cheap and made in Japan, compared to good, solid American made motors (K&B, Pittman, etc.) - until racers realized that the relatively simple Mabuchis could run rings around these motors, which were in effect derived from toy train motors... (and also cost twice as much as the cheaper Mabuchis).

Motors like the K&B Hellcat were an attempt to play both sides of the fence, since they looked like a "can" motor (Mabuchi, etc.), but could still be claimed to be Made in USA and all new. By the time these came out in 1966, the can motors were already well established, and they were often being rewound and hopped up in other ways.

None of the commercially-made slot cars could compete with a good scratchbuilt anyway, so often looked slow in comparison.

Don

[TSR]

Indeed. By the time the "last" RTRs came out, no one was interested as he public was purchasing bits and making their own cars that were so much more efficient at a lower cost than those offered by the traditional toy makers.

But the business as a whole went down the drain as there was no longer any support and promotion fom larger manufacturers.

Making it the more interesting for us collectors as we discover, one per one, the hidden treasures of these last few months, like this little nugget:

K&B Ford Mk2

[don.siegel]

Tom Graham's Aurora slot car book said its train motor was slow. That the K&B president said it had low sales because it was a "poor racer." It didn't make sense to me K&B would put a slow motor unless it was to save money because of royalties.

Tom's book is very good, but the question is a little more complicated than that, as we've pointed out.

It's hard to single out a reason why it had poor sales, but they probably just overrated the market for novelty items like these - a kid who wanted a flashy car would probably buy some futuristic Classic Thingie, instead of a Batmobile, which probably already seemed a little dated by the time it came out (I seem to remember the show was a huge hit the first year, but quickly slowed down, since it was really a novelty act - I loved the show, but would never have bought the car!) And it probably was a poor racer in the curves, just from being too high, with a bulky body.

A manufacturer used whatever components made economic and marketing sense. They probably could have sourced Mabuchi motors a lot cheaper than this, but they figured a special US-made motor would boost sales, and at $13.95 or whatever it cost, they had a lot of margin to cover these costs! And K&B did go to Mabuchi motors shortly after this.

A lot of manufacturers mis-estimated a lot of things, but it's not always easy to predict sales.

Don

[TSR]

That the K&B president said it had low sales because it was a "poor racer." It didn't make sense to me K&B would put a slow motor unless it was to save money because of royalties.

Tom Graham is speculating here. I talked to John Brodbeck years ago and the truth is simply a lack of demand and a quick pullout from slot car manufacturing shortly after these last two models were issued. No need to complicate matters.

[tjetcar]

DOKK; I HAVE ONE, I GOT AT A SWAP MEET HERE IN DENVER. IT DOES RUN, IS IN DECENT SHAPE. I HAVENT HAD IT ON THE TRACK YET. DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD PUT IT ON ONE THOUGH. THE BODY HAS ONE CRACK IN A CORNER, MISSING A BODY PIN. NO BOX OR DECALS. THE LIGHT WORKS. MY QUESTION IS HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH A (GUESTIMATE).

[TSR]

Sheldon,
Our guess is based on what we have seen or heard over the past 20 years. As an example, the same 3-4 cars have been changing hand over on E-Pay for the past 15 years. We know of very few collectors with one. There are very few out there in decent shape, but there are a few.
By "body pin", I assume that you are talking about the black steel clip that holds the body through two holes on each side?
If the car is damaged, there is no harm to play with it, but even amaged it is quite valuable, so if I were you I would play with something else, try to get the ar back to near pristine condition through a restoration process and hunt for the clear plastic box and replacement inner packing.

[FBON]

IT DOES RUN, IS IN DECENT SHAPE. I HAVENT HAD IT ON THE TRACK YET.

I think you should run it on a track once to see it's speed and the Cortina brake. It really won't lose value because it's already been played with and is missing the box.