43 replies to this topic

[MattD]

I guess my whole issue with this is that most of us can take one of these cars and work it over and it will handle somewhat better.   You can tweak it with some soldering and some thread locker.     My whole issue is, don't these companies have one person on the payroll that knows slot cars as well as guys here?   Can't they accept any input from a couple of guys on the payroll that know slot cars.   I don't think we are asking for a  bunch of improvements that increase costs.  Just some changes to a more competitive/better out of the box slot car.   I  think most of what has been discussed doesn't add much expense.     

 

Remember the AMT fiasco of a few years ago with their 1/25 slot car kits.  I guess their input came from people in the doll industry or something, but nobody that knew s**t about slot cars had any input.    They had screw together guide flags!   Push on plastic wheels!    This from a company that made a decent brass chassis in 1965.

 

Just let a slot car guy give some input.

[Bill from NH]

The AMT fiasco wasn't by the same company that made brass chassis in '65, other than in name only. They should have just sold hard body kits this time around. Today's AT&T isn't the same company they were 25-40 years ago either..

[n9949y]

I agree Mattb, there's a disconnect between design, manufacture and use, apparently done without input from the domestic slot racing community. Right now I have a handsome collection of 1/24th BRM and Scale Auto shelf model cars with guide flags!

[Dennis David]

King tracks in Europe are thought appropriate for Wing cars and that's about it. Most club tracks are flat and 6 lanes with most having NO scenery.

[Samiam]

Remember the AMT fiasco of a few years ago with their 1/25 slot car kits.  I guess their input came from people in the doll industry or something, but nobody that knew s**t about slot cars had any input.    They had screw together guide flags!   Push on plastic wheels!    This from a company that made a decent brass chassis in 1965.

 

Just let a slot car guy give some input.

 

They got input from one of the most slot savvy guys around. A blog member. They dismissed his advice.

 

Maybe they can be convinced to release a "Body Only".   

[Tex]

LOL

 

Ours ain't shelf models and not very handsome either. The Toyota outhandles(can that be said of a BRM?  LOL) the other BRM Group C cars. Do I wish the BRM's were constructed better and handled better? For SURE! But they are what they are and if I paid $150 or more for a slot car(which I did), I'm damn sure gonna race it. It's an absolute JOY to finish a BRM race and then put our Scaleauto's on the track... the difference between night and day.

 

 

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[MSwiss]

Do you race the BRM's with the plastic or metal chassis?

I hosted a couple big BRM races, in conjunction with the hobby show.

The final 8 racers who transferred into the Main, were required to switch to new handout motors.

They did it at one table, 2 racers at a time, in 4 seperate stages, because the BRM officials felt that was the most they could keep an adequate, eye on.

It was 12:30 at night, while this was going on, and my head was slowly unscrewing from my neck.

IIRC, we finished 1:30-2:00 AM.

[Tex]

We run the plastic chassis'. A few of us have the aluminum chassis but we've never gotten around to racing them. We mostly follow the rules but we don't get worked up about 'em; running the hardbody cars is our escape from the stress of "real" racing. I think the only thing we check at tech is if the car has some kind of clearance.

[Mr. HP]

I picked up two of the BRM Trans-Am Mustangs to run on my routed home track for a little scale realism. In contrast, the majority of my slot car collection is of the commercial track variety. The level of detail and quality of these cars is pretty good and to my surprise handle way better than my expectations and way better than any other home-set car I’ve tried on my track.

 

 

 

 

[sportblazer350]

Just got one of these Trans-Am Mustangs, out of the box, touched nothing and it performs flawlessly on my home Carrera track. It competes against my fully tuned H&R Racing chassis Hardbody cars. I really don't understand those who complain about the latest releases by BRM. These are far superior to their earlier plastic chassis cars, which were designed to race on plastic tracks, not commercial tracks. And yes, the earlier BRM cars can be tuned to race in commercial tracks, as i have done it for 7+ years and had a blast doing it. It is just like racing Hardbody cars back in the mid 1960's- ya have to race them, they are not glued down to the track cars. They are SCALE model car racing slot cars, not wing cars.  And when raced together they are very competitive and fun.

 

ps- an out of the box Scaleauto car, with Scaleauto foam rubber rears, performs perfectly on any commercial track. did that for years too 

 

all slotcars need tweaks and tuning to perform better- so why complain about tuning a BRM car??

 

SCALE model car Hardbody racing is not for everyone. That's why we have all types and scales of slot cars to choose from. Pick what ya like and race it, don't put down what others enjoy.

 

oh yeah- these new Trans-Am cars are $139.99, a big price reduction by their importer. The new anodized aluminum chassis is their best to date. Quality is top notch for the price. To build a quality H&R Racing Hardbody model kit bodied car costs approx. $100 and takes a lot of hours to build and tune, so worth $40 more to take one of these beauties out of the box and onto my track. For those of us who enjoy BRM and Scaleauto cars, these new Trans-Am models are a welcome release and we are happy to have them, and we want more. 

 

If you want to go really fast, race wing cars. If you want to race really SCALE cars, in other words- real model car racing as when the hobby started, and continues, in 1/24 scale- try one of these. You just might like it. 

[Quickcars]

Those Stangs look awesome!  I think I will get a Camaro and a Mustang too...

[idare2bdul]

"Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:50 PM

It is amazing to me that after slot cars as we know them have been around for over 50 years, a company can't make a car you pull out of the box and it runs great. " And it was probably designed by CAD???? 

This isn't a sometimes problem but since a large number of homeset cars are used as don't take me out of my box, that just pretend to be usable, there is little incentive to improve. 

[sportblazer350]

for those who do not care for "nuts and bolts" types of SCALE chassis, do a little research and see what is being built and raced n Europe. REAL SCALE Model Car Racing- detailed to perfection, chassis that perform very well, cars handle great, but are NOT in any way to be compared to wing cars, in either speed, handling, or looks.

 

I still don't understand these types of discussions that compare apples to oranges. And the other complaints about rtr cars needing tuning once removed from the box- then tell me why racers go to extremes to rewind motors, balance motor parts, adjust brushes, chassis tweaks, etc etc etc??? Or, let's open up the scratch building comparison discussion, opening up another "can of worms".  Just watch the amount of soldering and other types of work done on slot cars at any commercial race.  Do your Parma, JK, etc cars work perfectly "out of the box"??  

                                                                                                                           

The answer here is simple: race BRM cars by themselves as it's own class- they are fun and a challenge to race; race Scaleauto cars as it's own class- they perfrom great out of the box, just add their own foam rubber rears for commercial tracks with light spray (or no) glue. I did this for many years and it was amongst the most enjoyable racing i have ever done. And yes i also build, tune and race H&R Racing hardbody cars with model kit bodies- again, race them in their own class. There ya go fellas: 3 separate SCALE Model Car Racing hardbody 1/24 scale classes that perfrom well on a good road course track.  and btw- a box stock Scaleauto Porsche, with foam rubber rears, can match or beat any super tuned H&R hardbody car I have raced against. 

 

Back to the original topic- these new BRM Trans-Am cars are beautiful, I have only minor issues with them- not much braking, but have yet to mount foam rubber rears to them or try either a different motor or gear ratio- But these are all standard tuning options for any model or scale or type of slot car, based on the track you are racing on. As far as complaints about too many crashes with BRM cars and body damage- I have raced al of the above mentioned hardbody cars, with 2 types of racers: one type can't keep their cars in the slot and crash often, others barely ever come out at all. With the first group, body damage was a big issue. With the second group, body damage was not an issue.

 

If you race these types of hardbody cars beyond their capabilities, then body damage will occur. So I do not really see any of the complaints brought up about these cars as significant issues. 

[BrettC]

These BRM TransAm cars are great to drive, " and just that, DRIVE ", they don't go flat out around corners, banked or flat.
And I'm sure I spent less time getting my BRM's race ready than Mattb spent on his Camaro.
But then, both cars are built to a different rule set, for a different purpose, ones hard body racing, the other is true scale racing.

Sportblazer350, try spacing the guide down with something firmer than the supplied spring, I've found that poor braid contact on BRM cars to be the problem when it comes to average brakes.
From memory, the gear ratio is 12/38, you can get a 41t spur from BRM, which would also help with braking.
I have also successfully used PlaFit spur gears on them, to broaden you gear range.

As for tuning, there is a coloured cross brace on the body plate, either red or blue, that has a couple of unused, threaded holes.
Screws can be fitted into these to limit main/center plate movement.
I've also found that a bit of lead in just the right place helps with handling.

[sportblazer350]

thanks Brett for the detailed advise. I think either a different motor with stronger magnets or different gear ratio will give better braking for sure. My cars built with plastic model kit bodies and H&R Racing chassis perform perfectly on my Carrera track at 12 volts, PM basic controllers. BRM cars also work well with slip on urethane or silicone rear tires, and yes- adjust the guide flag height! I have yet to touch the new BRM trans-Am cars, just out of the box running. Next i will try a BRM Mini Cooper. 

 

   And to correct another post- yes you can race BRM cars flat out on a routed commercial track, light spray glue, foam rubber rears. I was managing a group that raced BRM and Scalaeauto for 8 years, and once you learn the basic tunings to make them work well, they were a lot of fun to race. Yes- RACE them, but no, they certainly are not wing cars, they are scale model race cars, and have to be raced as such. A delicate balance between all out and holding back, to avoid coming out of the slot and crashing.  Same for the Scaleauto cars, which were raced box stock, foam rubber rears. Great cars! 

[Jay Guard]

Glenn:

I basically agree with everything you've said here, Wing cars are clearly at one end of the scale and Hardbody/True Scale racing is at the other.  

However I was surprised that you left out the two very large segments in-between. Namely Flexi racing and Retro racing. I have to say that with the ultra high downforce bodies now being allowed in Flexi racing it's not much different from Wing racing, still a bit of driving but not much and I know from recent experience.  

However Retro racing is quite a different thing and is at least reasonably scale looking. While the latest Retro cars are very fast on large banked tracks they really have to "driven" on a flat track.  

Again no argument with the points you made, I just thought it important to fill-in a bit of the in-between stuff.

[sportblazer350]

Hi Jay, thanks for your kind words. I was not trying to list an all encompassing list of all types of 1/24 commercial cars being raced. Flexi car bodies are not exactly true scale, and yes i have raced Retro cars and retro jaildoor cars and i really appreciate that these are being raced, very scale like as were originally raced. I simply feel that those who bash hardbody nuts and bolts chassis cars are not helping the hobby. SCALE hardbody racing is a very retro class of racing, and for those of us that enjoy it would like to see it accepted into the commercial slot car hobby. Again- if you want to go fast, no matter if it is h.o or 1/24 scale, than do so- no critism from me. I find it relaxing to race 1/24 hardbody cars, just not with a 50,000 rpm motor. And if you have never looked, just check out the quality of the cars built and raced in Europe. 

 

   I recently track tested my BRM Tans-Am Mustang again at The Race Place (Farmingdale,NJ) and i was able to get low 8 second lap times. I did not push the car to 100% but very close, and this is completely box stock, out of the box. Compare this to our regular racing class of hardbody model kit bodies with tuned H&R Racing chassis built cars that get low 7 second lap times. Now that is a class that when we first strted were getting 9 second lap times, and lowered the times to low 7 second times with tuning the chassis and better body choices. So by comparison, a box stock BRM Trans-Am car at 8 seconds, with rubber rear tires, is very good indeed. I would expect with foam rubber rears and chassis tuning that these cars would easily keep pace with our tuned H&R hardbody cars.

 

   Add to that the fantastic quality of the body paint and detail, high quality anglewinder chassis, a value for the price. And the comparison to the recent line of AMT cars is not good- those AMT kits were not created to be raced, just as collector shelf items. To make a comparison, then fair would be to compare the BRM line to the rtr Scaleauto line of cars.  

[sportblazer350]

Update: just got a pair of urethane Super Tires and now my Mustang handles great  on my home Carrera track! And this is still out of the box, no break in, nothing touched or tuned!

 

A huge difference from the stock rubber rear tires. I am really impressed. The quality and performance are great. Only issue for me is not much in braking, i assume weak motor magnets. Yet i still get great lap times as is.

 

Enough said. Buy one or two and enjoy! Next purchase: one of the Camaros.

[Michael Jr.]

I've mentioned this elsewhere but just discovered this thread dedicated to this class, Scaleracing/BRM.

 

I have decided to go in hard on this class and stock them. My conversation with Alan who is the POC for acquiring these went very well and he inspired me to have some confidence in these cars.  The guys that have them love them and the ones that don't aren't ready to see much use for them.

 

I've based my decision on several factors. One factor was NOT that I just needed another class or a sampling of everything. I've tried to keep things as simple and streamlined as possible as I prep for startup. But here, on the ground where I am located, I've been interacting with a good number of the un-indoctrinated and those underexposed to slot car racing. I have a good number of JK flexi RTR on the wall and I'm stacking up some of the MidAmerica Drag RTR as well. But for those looking for a car that looks almost like a collectible that can race, this seems to fit that bill much better. It's a slower racing car and is very tightly controlled as far as the spec for racing. It will be an easy car to tech and will be attractive to watch race for those peeking in my front windows.

 

I expect this to be a starter class. Looking at a flexi and then looking at this car, young racers are certainly going to request this car. Based on testimonials from Texas, they don't burn up quickly and tires will be the only real maintenance issue unless you crash every lap. So a kid can get a car and come run regularly. As time goes by they will observe faster cars and may begin to transition to the flexi cars. Standard stamped steel chassis and identical specs for three different bodies allow them to open up new racing horizons after they've learned about racing with the Scaleauto/BRM cars.

 

So this is going to be the Saturday race for those moving out of rentals into first car ownership. I know it will be a local class and no series will be coming to town for racing. So I will sell and manage this entirely locally for now. But I do believe this is going to be a gateway drug car for new racers. If I'm wrong....well I've got a bunch of great looking cars to display.

 

Now somebody come down here and help me get these dang tracks together!  Between Covid and work and race schedules I can't get any manpower!  I've got half an Orange and an entire Engleman to get on some legs.