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Still seeing motors (occasionally) new to me


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#1 havlicek

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 05:33 AM

This one came from Italy, so maybe it's more common in Europe, but it's one I don't think I've seen before.  I mean, I've seen a lot by now, so maybe I've forgotten, but I don't think so!  Anyway, the motor appears to basically be the same height and width as a 16D, but the length is way shorter and is the same as a modern PS4002.  The end bell makes me think it's a Johnson, as I've seen the same end bell marking on Johnsons.  Speaking of the end bell, it's such a good copy of a Mabuchi that it even has "The Mabuchi Crack"  :)  It's also the early style where the brushes ride directly on the plastic, and they are some teensy-weensy brushes, so right away it's clear the end bell will need some pretty major reworking.

 

The can has a large brass bushing carrier with an odd "key" cast into one side of it that was probably used for locating the motor in whatever it was originally made to fit in.  I won't know until I open her up, but that all may have to change as well, but maybe it can be kept and only modified internally.

The arm is a very short stack (as you would guess) and the motor is functional as it stands.  At full tilt boogie, the motor draws like three tenths of an amp  ( :D ), so whatever it "powered" must have been pretty slow.  I'm guessing it was some sort of homeset car, and that kind of "performance" was probably entirely appropriate.  Anyhow, "I'm going in"!

IMG_2709.JPG


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John Havlicek




#2 Lone Wolf

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:39 AM

John, are you referring to the motor marked Eldon?

 

If so, that is their "12 volt" motor that was used in the Eldon rails and also came in the somewhat rare Eldon Speed Shop car kits. 


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Joe Lupo


#3 havlicek

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:26 AM

Hi Joe,

     Yes of course!  I placed the regular Mabuchi and Proslot motors in the rear for size comparison.  This one is new to me (*I think), and thanks for the information!  I should have known you'd be the guy with the lowdown on the motor.  Strange little motor.  :)


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#4 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:51 AM

John,

 

Here are some photos.  It is a rare bird, but Eldon did sell it separately in its own package.

 

Almost certainly this was a "home track" motor intended to upgrade cars (running on tracks powered by 6 volt power packs) to more standard 12 volt powered tracks.

 

Eldon 3931 Motor a.jpg

 

Notice the instructions say remove the 6 volt motor and replace it with this 12 volt motor, and also "Do not use with Selectronic power pack".

 

Eldon 3931 Motor b.jpg

 

In case anyone is keeping track, it's part number 3931:

 

Eldon 3931 Motor c.jpg

 

Here's the close up:

 

Eldon 3931 Motor d.jpg

 

Have fun!  :D


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#5 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 08:08 AM

I wouldn't mess with it; it already has "SUPER TORQUE" and HIGH PERFORMANCE" :laugh2:

 

"JUST KIDDING" John :crazy:


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#6 NSwanberg

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 02:44 AM

I have never seen that one. I would think the EZmelt endbell did not serve the home race set enthusiast well.


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#7 havlicek

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 06:04 AM

I have never seen that one. I would think the EZmelt endbell did not serve the home race set enthusiast well.

 

I think it's new to me as well Nelson.  That end bell was fine for this sort of thing, and if the motors were left with the stock wind, they worked "OK" even on commercial tracks.  Even when Mabuchi went with the "improved" hardware of the FT16D, they still used the same "candlewax" material to mold the end bells...and THAT'S when things got really smoke-y.  ***As for hardware, by far, the 13UO represented the most forward-thinking design they marketed for slot cars.  It was basically a set of hoods and bottom plates, not all that different from the hardware we use today and made popular by Mura.

So, with this motor being basically a much-shortened 16D Johnson clone of a Mabuchi, I got busy on the setup.  The magnets are actually fine, and in the upper range for any stock Mabuchi/Johnson 16D motor, so they'll get a set of shims, and will be installed with two clips to better center them (*the stock magnet tabs were flattened on the bottom of the can).

I removed the odd can bearing because it was a sloppy fit to the armature shaft, and prevented normal bracket mounting for can drive (*the original was can drive).  I turned an adapter for a 2mm x 5mm bushing and soldered that in to place, after which I epoxied-in a nice snug oilite, lining it up with the bore of the end bell bushing.  I then drilled a pair of vertical holes in the can to make mounting EZ.

The end bell, being cracked on both sides got tossed for a clean example of the same end bell.  I milled both sides of the end bell flat, drilled holes and mounted-up some Mura hoods for standard "36D" sized brushes.  This also meant re-clearancing the inside of the hardware to fit a larger diameter commutator, because using these hoods on this end bell put them too close together.

All this makes for a pretty spiffy setup, but one that is still limited by the end bell plastic.  It's just a much-shortened version of motors I've done hundreds of times before.  A 65/30 should do very nicely here, and be able to live a long and fruitful life.  Without cutting a set of stronger magnets to fit, a 50-55/29, even with low-timing might be pushing things here.  In the end, this motor can easily go full sidewinder or inline because of it's compact dimensions.

IMG_2712.JPG


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John Havlicek

#8 havlicek

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:04 PM

I took care of the last couple of details on this weird little guy.  I inserted filler tubes in the posts (*helps keep them straight by making the PM sleeves fit the screws better) and drilled the can for end bell mounting screws.  After that, I wound a 67/30 on a .400" long stack (*which is about what the stock stack length was, minus the fiber end-insulators), and did "high timing" (for me anyway) at around 27 degrees advance.  To get the arm to work out, I shortened the inside flange part of the end bell, so I could slide the magnets forward.  The original hefty "can-bushing-thing" actually had the tail spacer of the arm recessed into it so far that it was actually past the outside of the can's back end!  Together with the arm's OD being around .018" wider than the stock arm's .500", this all should make for much improved performance, and a motor that shouldn't smoke if treated well.  ;)

IMG_2714.JPG IMG_2713.JPG


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John Havlicek

#9 Geary Carrier

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:11 PM

This oughta zip around Nicely...


Yes, to be sure, this is it...


#10 havlicek

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 06:52 PM

Yep Geary.  It should be MUCH faster than original (DUH!) and still be reliable.  Funny thing, I used to have a lot of problems with #30 wire and 6 layer coils in general.  For a while, it used to scare me just to weld them, and I got used to that too.  They're still a bother, but not so much as they used to be.


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#11 Bill from NH

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 07:35 PM

Somebody gave me a couple of these motors years ago, but I forget who. One has a stock factory wind, the second one has been rewound & balanced. I never knew what they were used for.


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#12 havlicek

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 05:47 AM

They are strange little motors Bill.  I keep thinking I may have seen one before and incorrectly thought it was just a cut down 16D.  Of course, that would have been an obvious mistake on my part because of where the holes are.  So while the guys like Joe Lupo and Steve Okeefe who know these old motors inside and out know them well, I was surprised when this one showed up in the mail.

Here again, I've completely ruined a rare motor :D that, in stock form was about as weak as a motor can get and still be a motor.  Then again, as a rewind, it's a can type motor with decent magnets, a better end bell and an arm that should do really well at zipping a car around the track!


John Havlicek

#13 SlotStox#53

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:36 AM

Weaker than even a poultry little 13UO/13D? :( :laugh2:

#14 havlicek

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 05:15 AM

Weaker than even a poultry little 13UO/13D? :( :laugh2:

 

Well...6 of one, a half dozen of the other :)


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#15 Riccardo

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:41 AM

Hi guys !

this motor is mine ... I don't remember where is coming from but I have a similar ( not marked Eldon) item that was in a Doyusha 1/24 BRM formula 1 kit. This may mean as a Japanese (Mabuchi?) motor....

Thanks to "magician" John for this umpteenth motor for my race collection...


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#16 havlicek

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 02:59 PM

No magician here Riccardo, just a determined sonofagun is all!  :)


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