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Monogram X-220S FT-36D motor


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#1 Champion 507

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 04:08 PM

Okay, I've known what a Monogram X-220 FT-36D motors is for over 50 years. What is the X-220S? Is it a "hotter" motor because it has a faster arm in it? If so, how many turns of what wire? If it was one of the last versions, were they wound with red wire like some Revell, Cox and Classic motors I've seen?

 

Or is it just because it came with a 16 tooth pinion gear and was used in one of their last sidewinder chassis and the S just simply stood for "sidewinder"?


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#2 Champion 507

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:57 PM

Since no one knew the answer or didn't care, I thought I would PM PdL to see if he knew. Turns out, he was at LASCM and was able to research it and look at examples. I post this just in case others might want to know too.

 

Here is what I initially wrote him:

 

Sent 06 August 2018 - 09:05 PM

Hi PdL,

What is the difference in these 2 motors? I've known what a X-220 motor is for over 50 years. Someone on ebay has a Monogram Ford GT kit for sale. On the side of the box, Monogram touts the all new X-220S. It says it has an 8 volt arm with special windings and a special commutator. Okay, maybe red wire as opposed to brown wire, but a special comm? Please explain.

One guess I have is that the box art people were just blowing smoke about the motor and that the S really stood for sidewinder because it had a 16 tooth pinion installed on the motor.

Thanks,
Doug
 
Here is his reply:

 

Sent 06 August 2018 - 09:19 PM

Hello Doug,
since I am today in the right place, i checked. The only visible diff is the shorter shaft for SW use. The comm looks the same to me. Brown wire like the others. The winding COULD be different, as Monogram offered different armatures, some 6-volt, some 8-volt...
The "S" is likely for SW use, but otherwise...
Now, we have spare motors MIB and sealed, and there is a "Super X-220" and a "Super X-220S", while they both have the same short shaft and the SW pinion. Hence one has to believe... different winding.

 


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Doug Azary
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#3 Geary Carrier

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:29 AM

Doug,

 

Nice looking arm...

s-l1600 (31).jpg

s-l1600 (32).jpg


Yes, to be sure, this is it...


#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:59 AM

I like the recommended masking tape magnet shims. I've heard of using electrical tape before, but not masking tape, although it's probably thinner.. :)


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Bill Fernald
 

I heard they weren't going to make yardsticks any longer.


#5 SpeedyNH

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 11:57 PM

back in the 60's, masking tape is what we used. electrical tape was too soft and the glue melted. but we put it on the back of the magnets, not in the can. 2-3 layers

speedy


Steve Lang

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:38 AM

Geary, thank you very much for showing both sides of your historic piece there!  :good:

 

Yeah, Bill, like Steve said, we applied masking tape to the magnets. In rebuilding old 36D's down through the years I've come across a number of  different tapes and shim materials used in these old Mabuchi's.

 

Mabuchi produced a few different winds for the 36D:

 

Factory stock: 110 turns #31

As they claim 6v.: 90 turns of #30 (not THAT much of an improvement in my opinion, but a little)

 "    "        "    4.5v.: 75 turns of #29 (now we're improving things)

 "    "        "      3v.: 60 turns of #28 (much hotter arm but probably too much for stock magnets and low temp nylon endbell). This one belonged in a Champion setup with their Celcon endbell and Arco magnets with shim.

 

Cox, Classic and Monogram sold these "hop-up" arms and there may have been other companies market them too, but by then, people were going to rewound 16D's or every kid's dream come true...the 26D.


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#7 Bill from NH

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:16 AM

Doug, this wind infomation for 36D's is a useful thing to have, something I didn't have, thanks for posting it!  I still have 2 or 3 NOS 36D's to put in something someday. I do recall the time when I bought them for a buck to pull out the brushes & throw away the rest. I got about a dozen then at a LHS. :)  

 

Hi Speedy, how are things by you? I still recall the 16D rewound powered Sprints Plus car of yours that you let me try when Kenny had the track in Merrimack. That thing was a handful for me. :laugh2:


Bill Fernald
 

I heard they weren't going to make yardsticks any longer.


#8 SpeedyNH

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:12 PM

Howaya Bill?

I'm fine! long time no see.

currently on work travel in NC.

LOL that it is.  I used to rewind a ton of 16D's back in the 60's.  even some... 26D's!

you should come over when I get back and i'll show you what I've managed to hang onto.  


Steve Lang

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 01:08 PM

Bill,

 

You're welcome on the wind info.

 

Well, while we're at it, let's do the Mabuchi wind info they did for 16D arms:

 

110 turns #33 stock

90 turns #32

75 turns #31

60 turns #30

 

60 turns #30 was a very popular wind for a while in late 1965 - early 1966. Yes the arms were fast but brakes were terrible and I would be pretty safe to A$$ume that many a Mabuchi endbell ended up as a partial molten mess because of its low heat tolerance  :cray:  

 

Give a kid a LaGanke and some wire and he'll have a Mabuchi endbell melted in no time!  :laugh2:  That's the way it was in my case. :dash2:


Doug Azary
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#10 Bill from NH

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 01:48 PM

Some day, I'll have to sit down & wind an arm. I have the materials & a LaGanke. :laugh2:


Bill Fernald
 

I heard they weren't going to make yardsticks any longer.


#11 Champion 507

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:14 PM

I bet you still have some #22 wire you bragged about a few years ago!  :sarcastic_hand:  :laugh2:  :wacko2:


Doug Azary
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