34 replies to this topic

[Yves Chapoutier]

Dear Friends,

 

Please, could you help me to identify this brass chassis.

I purchased two of these chassis on Ebay 4 or 5 years ago.

The seller named it like Dynamic brass scratch building chassis.

 

Many thanks for all,

Yves

[Bill from NH]

Yves, I'm no chassis expert, but it appears to be a Dynamic F1 brass strip chassis that someone put Champion body mounts on, in order to fit wider sports car bodies. Whoever did this, the work looks real clean.

[raisin27]

I am no expert either but it looks like a modern build to me

[Steve Okeefe]

Bill and Yves,

 

Not to be contradictory, but I've never seen a chassis manufactured by Dynamic that looks like that.  However, I'm always on the look-out for new information, so if I'm wrong someone please correct me!

 

To me that looks like a scratch-built chassis made mostly (but not entirely) out of vintage parts from various manufacturers.

 

The only part I see that I would positively identify as a Dynamic part is the "Twin Hole Bearing" at the front end of the drop arm (the pickup guide is mounted in it).

 

The motor can and endbell are Champion of Chamblee from 1968 (can't see the armature or magnets so I cannot tell what they are).

 

The motor bracket is a REHCo item (1967-68; but still widely available today).

 

The crown gear appears to be a Cox product (1965-68; but still available today).

 

The wheels are K&B Posi-Loc (1965).

 

The motor lead wires look like they might originally be from a Parma motor (1990s and later).

 

The pickup guide is a modern Starburst "Jet" style guide (current product).

 

The inline chassis design itself is representative of mid-late 1967, with brass rod and strip construction, a built-up drop arm and outrigger body mounts.  The perforated L-angle strips on each side are a mystery to me - there are several manufacturers that made body mounts that look similar to that, including Dynamic, but none are identical.

 

The only thing about this that is seriously out of place (other than the modern pickup guide itself) is the way it is attached to the drop arm; the guide nut mount didn't become popular until early 1971.

 

Hope this helps! 

[Bill from NH]

Steve,I was thinking it was a Dynamic scratchbuilt strip F1 chassis 0.461 that had been selling on eBay 5 or 6 years ago.That chassis's droparm uses a brass tube for the guide rather than the 2-hole brass block. Yves's chassis does have a sheet brass droparm downstop as does the 0.461. What I can't tell from the photo if yves's chassis uses  a Dynamic motor bracket.

 

Unfortunately, the only photo I could find of a 0.461chassis is one sealed in a plastic bag & it's not very good.

[Yves Chapoutier]

Hello Bill,

 

Many thanks for your explanation. It's clear for me my chassis is a 0.461 Dynamic F1 brass strip chassis. I put Champion body mounts on in order to fit wider original Aston Martin DB4 GTZ body (see photos).

 

Best regards,

Yves

[Yves Chapoutier]

[Yves Chapoutier]

Bill,

 

Could you send by PM photo could you find of 0.461chassis is one sealed in a plastic bag.

 

Many thanks,

Yves

[Steve Okeefe]

Bill,

 

Wow!  You're right; something else I'd never actually seen before.  I stand corrected, thank you

 

Okay, so now that I know it exists, I've dug deeper and found a reference to it in the 1968 issue of Auto World on page 153.  I must have seen this dozens of times, but it never registered with me that the manufacturer was Dynamic, not "SANO".  Duh... 

 

Anyway, Dynamic part number 461:

 

 

I see the "Twin Hole Bearing" on the front of the drop arm, but instead of a REHCo motor bracket, it has (not surprisingly) a Dynamic motor bracket, as well as a second small bracket for the front of the motor.  Now that I go back and look again at Yves' photos in his OP, that could be a Dynamic bracket...

 

I also note this is a drawing rather than a photo.  Those Dynamic guys were sneaky...

 

 

[Martin]

Following along with you guys.

Great looking cars Yves.

Has anybody seen a 463 Dynamic "SANO" frame?

[Yves Chapoutier]

Dear Friends,

 

Great post, clear explanation ! Bill, Steve, Martin many thanks for all.

Best regards,

Yves 

[Bill from NH]

.Has anybody seen a 463 Dynamic "SANO" frame?

 

I haven't seen a Dynamic 463, only the 461. Steve found the sketches in the '68 issue of  the Auto World.catalog. This would have been about the same time Dynamic released their anglewinder kits. Maybe the 463 was never released. If any of them do exist, the LASCM will have them, PDL will know.

[Martin]

"Never released" That would be my guess also Bill. Be a fun chassis to recreate. Maybe Yves car is as close as we get for now.

I would like to find a 461 to convert to 463. But I have never seen a 461 before this post. Glad you shared Yves.

[Pablo]

Either the arm is reverse timed, or it's marked, wired, and geared to run backwards.

[Eddie Fleming]

Love the look of the car in post #6

[Albert Bisaccia]

This may or may not help, it's from my dealer sheet collection.

 

 

Albert Bisaccia

 

 

[Bill from NH]

Albert, the sketches are the same as Steve found in the '68 Auto World catalog. However, your dealer sheet contains some additional infomation, such as the 3/4" tire versions 460 & 462 of 461 & 463. & Dynamic's no-bind bushings. Personally, I've not seen the 460, 462, or the Dynamic bushings. Thanks for sharing your dealer sheet.

[Albert Bisaccia]

Bill,

 

My pleasure!

 

Albert Bisaccia

[Jesse Gonzales]

How many of you guys got yelled at for using "Sano" or "Chipsed" too much in non-racer settings? In fact the term "Geeks" was used by the racing community long before it went mainstream. Dynamic's ad just latched on to a word that was used by the LA crowd back then. The AZ Desert Rats never used any of that language until a few of us made the trek to Rosecrans Raceway or Speed & Sport (Granlee's).

 

Jess Gonzales

[Martin]

Either the arm is reverse timed, or it's marked, wired, and geared to run backwards.

Pablo, if a motor was to be run with its timing retarded in this case CW would it de-tune the power to some degree and make it easier to drive. I get that it would run hotter but would it make for less punch and and a softer hit, maybe that's better done with gearing. But just interested in your thoughts on this subject. 

[Pablo]

Timing in slot car motors isn't referred to as "retarded" ; it's either CW or CCW.

This has nothing to do with de-tuning. Making a motor spin the wrong direction is simply wrong.

 

Will it make it run slower? Yes. Less punch? Yes. Softer hit? Yes. Hotter temp? Probably.

Is it the correct way to do all that? No. Since we can't see the comm, we don't know how it's timed. It may be neutral and the arrow may simply be the direction the builder wanted it to spin.

 

The sticker on the can says "Champion" - Bill, did Champion sell CW (at EB) arms?

[Bill from NH]

The 16D AT motors from Parma & Slotworks were advertised to enable both "advance" & "retard" timing. For instance, on the then Manchester, small 105' hillclimb, I would leave my 38 degree 185' Engleman motor (Chinese arm) in the car with the gearing, but retard the timing 5 or 6 degrees at the endbell, rather than change motors or change the gearing. The following week I would be back on the Engleman again, so I turned the timing back up..

 

I don't know much about Champion arms because  I only had a 507, a Grp 20, & a Carl Ford wound 25S. All three were CCW at the endbell. I doubt Champion sold CW arms, but my first Mura Grp. 20 is a CW.

 

I notice both of Yves's motors in the post #1 photo are marked for CW rotation. Maybe he's running something other than Champion arms in these motors. A quick post or PM ought to get the answer..

[Pablo]

Ya got me on the "advance/retard" wording, Bill    I forgot about motors with rotating endbells   

I stand corrected, yep I remember the Parma "Rotors".

[Yves Chapoutier]

Pablo,

 

The motor can, endbell, Arco magnets and magnet shim are Champion. The armature is French Rewound 16D pro racing from Electric Dreams (double 28-29 arms, wound silver wire and time CW).

 

​Please, could you explain again time CW and CCW with photos of armatures. Timing and motor rotation are not clear for me.

 

Many thanks,

Yves

[Pablo]

Ahhh, so you have a CW (at endbell) timed French arm. Perfect. The arrow is correct and the car is done right.

 

Timing is measured by the amount of angle off center of neutral timing.

Neutral being, the comm tabs are exactly between the middle of the winds.

In my photo, the top is what I'm calling "middle of the winds", or, in other words, halfway between the lams. Notice neither arm has neutral timing

 

 

The green arm comm is twisted way to the left (CCW) of center. This is CCW timing and it's designed to spin CCW.

 

The brown arm comm is the opposite - it's twisted way to the right - this is CW timing (same as your French) and designed to spin CW.

 

Some comms have some timing built in to their design so people will say the true measurement should be by the comm slots, but the idea is still the same. I referenced the comm tabs in my example just for illustration