65 replies to this topic

[Pappy]

The three names I remember the most are John Cukras, Mike Morrissey and of course Herman P. Finklemeyer. But Alfred C. Snicklefritz wasn't bad.

I don't think you can really compare drivers from the 60's to wing car racers. To me wing car racing isn't slot car racing. Retro is slot car racing.

[redbackspyder]

Just give me Team Checkpoint and I 'll have no one to fear. Bill Steube Sr, Mike Steube,Terry Schmid, Lee Hines, D.Howard, Philippe et al.... and you could not forget John Cukras,Pete Zimmerman,Mike Morrissey,Bryan Warmack,and of course Thor's hammer, Tore Anderson. These guys along with Gross,Ursaner,Limpach,Tony P ,were all great. Mike Steube kicked everyone's A** at the Legends Race, and it was a pretty good field with equally prepared cars. But on any given day , any of these guys or others could be the Jet. Thankfully we have D3 and Retro to see the great ones again. And don't tell me the young racers have an advantage, if you have seen Cukras,Steube,Anderson or Warmack drive lately, they can still move those fingers with the best.

[Matt Bruce]

Anderson, the line starts there then Cukras.

[Ron Hershman]

I think that each decade had a group of outstanding slot car racers. I have raced against many of the above mentioned racers and realize that the races were much larger in the 1960's than compared to following decades. I believe that the "Pro" racers from the 1960's had a much harder time racing in the mains of large races compared to present day slot racers. I also believe that the top racers of each decade could compete against each other. I see "Pro" racers from five decades racing against each other at Buena Park Raceway and it is interesting to see that many of the "A" Main racers are former "Pro" racers. I believe that the best racers are the ones who won the most National Open races, but because the USRA Nats started in 1971 it is hard to compare earlier racers. It is true that Paul "Buef" Pedersen has won five Nats and three Worlds races and that P.A. Watson has won four Nats and three Worlds races, but John Cukras won four out of six ARCO races and the Hemisphere Race in Texas before the USRA was created. He also won the first USRA race at Checkered Flag Raceway as well. I believe that if the best racers of each decade could race each other in the Group 7 you might be surprized about the outcome. Unfortunately, most racers are over 50 years old and the younger racers have an advantage.

John K. Wakamatsu

While I have to agree with most of what John has said..... there in no way IMO to come up with the "greatest" racer of all time. Too many era's and different types of cars. One would have to make a basis on how to rate and that is impossible. Is it how many national titles they have won? How many different countries they have won in? How many races they won? The questions could go on and on.

While the drivers of the 60's are the ones who usually the ones who the old guys remember... a lot of the old guys have never seen the racers of the 80. 90's and today. A lot of today's racers never seen the 60's 70's racers.

There are a lot of drivers today, that are better than any of the old drivers. Then again, some of today's good drivers would struggle on the tracks of old.

There are ton's of good drivers out there that never made it to a big race, but would have done very well if they had. I have seen some guys come in and race for 6 moths and become national champs as well. Some racers are over rated..some are under rated.

A lot of great racers won because they had "factory team" advantages and/or raced slot cars for a living. Hard to beat that. Then there are guys who never got team stuff and still beat the sponsored guys.

There have been too many specialists over the years.... some guys were great Group 7 racers, but could never do well with a scale car. There are great scale racers that can't win with a wing car. Then you have some guys that have won with almost every type of car out there over the years.... those are the "great" racers IMO.

There are very few who have won in all types of cars in a very short time....... those who have are the "greatest" IMO. They are very few. These guys have won National World titles in both winged and non winged cars in the same year.... again a very select group.

The great guys are the one who have won for years, different types of cars, take time off and come back and continue the winning at the big races. Again a very select group.

I have had guys who raced since the 60's tell me who is the best over all the years..... I won't mention any names for arguments sake. They are respectable guys who have raced against all the greats over 40 years..... mostly the results are accurate, but would shatter fragile ego's.

It's all in each person's mind who is the greatest. And there is also a big difference between a "driver" and a "racer". Once you can figure that out, it may clear some confusion.

[TSR]

All this diatribe points out clearly to Hermann Finklemeyer as the greatest of them all. Why would anyone even argue the point.

[endbelldrive]

The list of great ones gets bigger..Jon Laster, Sergio Maresca, Alberto Capra were great at driving (sorry Ron, I meant racing!) those European flat tracks in the pre-fish rubber days of the mid to late 1980s. The greatest of all time...I dunno.

edit: Joel Montague and Steve Bogut too.

[Ron Hershman]

Sergio Maresca, Alberto Capra were great at driving

Right there are two awesome scale racers..... most know nothing about them...they used to come here and clean clocks in the IMCA days.

[TSR]

How about Jean-Pierre Van Rossem?

[Quickerthanyu]

How about Jean-Pierre Van Rossem?

What about him? LOL

[TSR]

Well according to his own listing, he DOES qualify as one of the greatest ever...

[Quickerthanyu]

Oh, right.. that listing that doesnt count in the 3 biggest G7 races of the West Coast.. The Western States, BP 500 and the Boola Bash..

Right.. I see that list is very worthy!! LOL

JPVR's list is a total joke..... The points he has are probably just typo's! LOL

[Ron Hershman]

There is "ONE" GREATEST racer of all time. Winner in the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s and still winning!!
Has raced and won (in all classes) on a Nationial level for over 40 years and still racing and winning.

NO other racer can even come close to John Tore Anderson!! He is the GREATEST of all time!!!

Here are a few more who have won in five decades..... Jan Limpach, Rande Marshall, Bob Kurkowski, Paul Pfeiffer..... just to name a few more. Maybe Joel Montague????

[redbackspyder]

The great part about this thread is that there is no one greatest driver or racer because you'll never get any concensus from this group. Everyone remembers their favorites, just like some will always say Joe Louis was the greatest heavyweight ever. To most of the old guys who have just returned, was there decent racing in the 80's and 90's???? My point is that no one can compare eras, and no one is right or wrong in their proposal for the greatest. But I will say emphatically that Steve Bogut was not the greatest driver, racer, whatever of any period!

[Ron Hershman]

I found the greatest of all time..........

[MSwiss]

We already had a similar thread a while back.If the criteria is both Division 1 & 2 USRA:
In alphabetical order:
Anderson
Ciccarello
Horky
Limpach

A tad behind:
Aberg
Beuf
Gilbert(Lee)
Gugu
Korec
Laster

Subbing D3 for D2,add Steube to the top tier.
Pfeiffer's a year of non-wing racing away from tier 2.
If Tony P can talk Ernie out of his 80 Nat's win,I'd throw him up on tier 2.

[Ron Hershman]

Hey Mike....... which Gilbert? Lee or Greg?

[MSwiss]

Obviously Lee.
I'm not aware of Greg's wing car career.

[MSwiss]

Ron,
I added someone new on my list.

[Ron Hershman]

If Tony P can talk Ernie out of his 80 Nat's win,I'd throw him up on tier 2.

????? leave something out of this statement?

[MSwiss]

????? leave something out of this statement?

It's a joke.Hence the smiley face.

Tony walks into Ernie's office.
Ernie:
"You want what and for what reason?
Yeah,sure,it'll save me some Christmas shopping."



*No actual "ownerships" of National Championships were tranferred in the attempt to tell this joke.

[Marty Stanley]

The heroes in my early days of slot were different from those of you on "The Shaky Side", and because of that, my nominations would be different.

I would like to have seen Rick and Phil Sloan (the Infamous Sloan Brothers) and John "Son" Babcock from the Battle Creek, Michigan, "Cereal City Raceway" crew able to travel more and to compete with some of the better known racers that surely will appear on this list.

John seemed to be good with anything that could be raced - scale cars, wing cars, HO cars...

I guess Rick and Phil are spotted in Indiana at val races now and then just for snicks and giggles.

I feel that Jim Stevens needs to be mentioned too as a great builder and all-around good guy; Jim was almost as inscrutable as Michael Iga "in the day".

Very interesting you should mention Phil Sloan!

I just had the fortune of racing with him this past March down at John's Slot Car Garage for Race #2 in the "My Series" racing program here in Florida.

Phil is not only a great racer, but a fantastic person to know.

He is one of those that will share everything (at least I think it's everything) he has ever learned about car preparation with anyone.

There are so many "Great Ones" out there, it's hard to pick a "Top List". I've raced against many from the 60's and many here in Florida today. They're all good. I remember racing, and getting beat I might add, by Mike Steube back in Atlanta in 1967.

[Michael Rigsby]

Since this is going to be my first post, and by the way I'm glad I found this place, I'll list some of my slotting "heroes", and some racers I raced against back in the old days when I travelled a lot and raced national events. Most of these guys I talked to at length, but probably only a few would ever remember me, but all left a lasting impression on me through the years and I'm glad to see some of them still around. I was never really that good on a national level, but I enjoyed being in the company of these gentleman and just enjoyed being able to participate with them.

Jan Limpach (in his day he was MISTER NATS)
Mike Steube
Joel Montague
Paul Pfeiffer ( one of the nicest, most knowledgeable guys around)
Mike Swiss ( who probably wouldn't remember me from Adam from the '88 and '90 Nats)
Ron Hershman (Mr. Outisite himself)
Paul Ciccarello (from the '96 Nats at JK raceway..he took time out to talk to this tired old racer who hadn't raced in awhile, and he's a heck of a competitor)
Paul "Beuf" Pederson (just a fantastic competitor and motor builder and smooth as ice on a king)

Past this list, I must admit when I got out of the hobby when my kids were growing up, I just lost touch with everyone and the sport. I recently got back into it the first part of the year, and though I no longer race wing cars like I used to, I'm still having fun with the new flexi's and learning the hobby all over again. I would like to see some of the more current champions in action like Herman James, Greg Gilbert, and so many more.

Mike Rigsby

[Marty Stanley]

Mike,

I'm quite glad you found this site. I was hoping some of the 'breadcrumbs' I've left lying around got you here.

Sure is nice to see another face from Florida and a good racer to boot. You sure should have stuck around on Saturday evening at The Raceway. The GTP race was a throw down. Terry and I ran hard and fast. He won, but I topped him on lap time.

Knowing that you, like me, are all too familiar with "unfortunate incidents" with turn marhals, I think you will understand that I encouered a few of them on that night. But Terry Tawney might have to go on to a Local List of great racers.

Perhaps a "Modern Day Top 10 Florida List" of excellent racers:

Jason Burnsides
William Burnsides
Mike Bresset
Jeff Cox
Adam Crawley
Pete Crawley
Kyle Hall
Tom Marlowe
Aaron Rothstein
Danny Zona

There are others that might qualify - heck you're #6 in GTP and we're pretty close in another class, 2nd & 3rd.

Now, I sure do hope that "Retro Racing" is one of the things on your mind!

Remember, August 16th at The Raceway! "Flexi GT" will be having it's inaugural race! IRRA / SERRA rules.

Hope to see you there!

[Michael Rigsby]

With the testing I was doing, Marty, I didn't have a GTP in my box that would turn consistently in the 3.8's on that day. Both were high 3.8 or low 3.9 cars at my driving best. I'm not even sure I'll run GTP the rest of the year, since there's really no sense in it for me to do so.

The real reason I went down as to fine tune the chassis on my Spec Nascar's for the race in two weeks. I was running chinese arms that duplicated the performance of my spec motors. I got both chassis where they would run 4.5-4.6 lap times, so I'm happy with that. Put a GT-1 Audi body on them, and they ran 4.3's with no sweat. Since I'm setting first in points in that class, I have more to gain by having a good showing the next three races with no drops, so that's where I'm putting my effort.

As far as the retro race, the weekend of the state race, the 9th is my long weekend. The weekend of the 16th is my weekend to work, so I won't even get off till 5pm on Saturday which kind of leaves me out of it. Looks interesting, but I'm not a fan of Falcon motors by any means, much less sealed motor racing at all, much less a sealed motor you throw away after three races at most.

As far as state racers that are worth of mention. I would definitely put Terry Tawney and Tom Marlowe on that list. Both are class acts and will help you in any way they can. On days you can run with them or beat them, then you have accomplished something. Aaron is pretty much the man to beat in GTP whenever he shows up.

Mike Rigsby

[NJ Racer]

There are many greats on the cover of this mag. Guess which great racer cleaned everyones clock in the Pro race on that day in time?

Can you also name the racers in both rows?

Hint...Tuckerton, NJ

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