Jump to content




Photo

The Greg VanPeenen thread


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
28 replies to this topic

#1 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,125 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou, Mississippi Gulf Coast

Posted 07 July 2019 - 07:49 PM

Greg VanPeenn says my scratchbuilding techniques are "BS." Here is the Slotblog quote:

 

"I'll tell you what Paul lets look at race results and see whose Retro chassis have most major event wins.

I can tell you I never do any of the BS you do when building a chassis"

 

First of all, I haven't built a Retro chassis in years, nobody is currently racing a Pablo Retro chassis, no Pablo Retro chassis have been entered in a major event for years. No need to look at race results to know that. DUH.

 

I have chronicled about five full pages of custom builds here over the years, and almost every single car has been sold.

Not one time has a car been returned for repairs or a dissatisfied owner.

 

So I have started this thread as a welcome mat for his challenge. He is perfectly welcome here to explain which of my methods are "BS." 

 

If he actually shows up with anything intelligent to add, I will ensure it ends up right here. That way my entire subforum doesn't get infected, just this little spot in his sick twisted heaven enjoying why he thinks my building methods suck.

  :)

 

DSC03397.JPG

 

Greg VanPeenen has consistently showed a total disrespect for the hobby and its most respected players. He can turn it around, right here, right now, or not. Either way, the world will see it.


  • havlicek, Danny Zona, mike1972chev and 2 others like this
Paul Wolcott




#2 Phil Hackett

Phil Hackett

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,901 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Was Silicon Beach Adjacent - Now the Playa District

Posted 07 July 2019 - 08:12 PM

I recently bought microwave popcorn... let me go throw a bag in the microwave and grab an ice tea from the fridge...


  • Jim Lange, old & gray, Samiam and 2 others like this
Click HERE to contact Sonic Products. The messenger feature on my Slotblog account has been disabled.

MACHINESIGN.JPG

#3 Zippity

Zippity

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,819 posts
  • Joined: 05-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wellington, New Zealand

Posted 07 July 2019 - 08:35 PM

:)


Ron Thornton

#4 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,817 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 07 July 2019 - 09:34 PM

Phil, remove the cellophane before putting the popcorn in the microwave. :laugh2:  i know a 3-1/2 year old kid in Colorado who didn't while his grandfather (not me) took a nap.

 

This fight has to be clean or else this thread will be quickly locked. :)


  • Jesse Gonzales likes this

Bill Fernald
 

I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 


#5 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,221 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 07 July 2019 - 11:09 PM

Bill is correct, as usual. 


  • Jesse Gonzales likes this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#6 Ecurie Martini

Ecurie Martini

    Ecurie Martini

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,007 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore MD

Posted 08 July 2019 - 01:09 AM

The first forum that I found when I wandered back into slot racing about 25 years ago was the "Old Weird Herald." I followed it for a while. Some of the "how to" articles, written by legends like Larry Shephard, were very useful but a lot of the forum content seemed to be often contentious "lawyering" about what was legal or illegal and who was cheating.  I don't know if it still exists but I've not visited it in many (20+?) years.

 

I follow Paul's builds, not because they are directly applicable to my projects which they are not but because I enjoy his reasoning and admire the craftsmanship. I think it is both reasonable and productive to ask why something was done/how it was done and even, in appropriate form, suggest alternates.

 

Derogatory declarations and blanket criticism are of little or no value. Let's not go that way.

 

EM

 

(Of course, at a certain age, pissing contests become uncomfortably close range encounters.)


  • Cheater, Phil Hackett, Steve Deiters and 5 others like this
Alan Schwartz

#7 Phil Hackett

Phil Hackett

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,901 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Was Silicon Beach Adjacent - Now the Playa District

Posted 08 July 2019 - 02:36 AM

Phil, remove the cellophane before putting the popcorn in the microwave. :laugh2:  i know a 3-1/2 year old kid in Colorado who didn't while his grandfather (not me) took a nap.

 

This fight has to be clean or else this thread will be quickly locked. :)

 

Also... microwave popcorn is flammable! It downright flames good! I done know so...


  • Jesse Gonzales likes this
Click HERE to contact Sonic Products. The messenger feature on my Slotblog account has been disabled.

MACHINESIGN.JPG

#8 Phil Hackett

Phil Hackett

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,901 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Was Silicon Beach Adjacent - Now the Playa District

Posted 08 July 2019 - 02:40 AM

Bill is correct, as usual. 

 

On both points or just one?


Click HERE to contact Sonic Products. The messenger feature on my Slotblog account has been disabled.

MACHINESIGN.JPG

#9 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,190 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 08 July 2019 - 05:20 AM

Alan Schwartz' comment sums it up nicely:
 

I follow Paul's builds, not because they are directly applicable to my projects which they are not but because I enjoy his reasoning and admire the craftsmanship.  I think it is both reasonable and productive to ask why something was done/how it was done and even, in appropriate form, suggest alternates.

 

More to the point:
 

Derogatory declarations and blanket criticism are of little or no value.  Let's not go that way

 

This should be self-evident, at least to all adults. If Mr. VanPeenen says:
 

"I'll tell you what Paul lets look at race results and see whose Retro chassis have most major event wins.
I can tell you I never do any of the BS you do when building a chassis"

 
... then it's clear he is missing some points, although there may be other things going on I'm not aware of. Pablo is one of a very small group of builders (at least that I'm aware of) who has taken the craft of scratchbuilding and elevated it to the level of "art." His attention to every small detail puts him, in my mind in the same general league as Rick Thigpen, Jairus Watson, Steve Okeefe, and a few others whose names I can't recall right now... but you get my point.

When I first came here some years ago and saw some of Rick Thigpen's work, I.... was... astounded. I still am. I almost expect insane perfection from his builds, as if it's "ordinary." I long-ago ran out of superlatives to describe what he does, and that kind of work only comes from real talent and almost certainly at least a little neurosis!  :) 

So here's the thing, does making gorgeous perfectly square cuts on piano wire with micro-bevels on all the ends equate to a faster/better-handling chassis? Does limiting solder flow on multi-rail assemblies so the joints all somehow (!?) start and end at the same points mean the car will be a "world-beater"? Does even being sure a chassis is dead-flat down to NASA tolerances and then polishing the whole shebang to a mirror shine drop a tenth off of lap times?  

While there are things that can be gleaned from reading detailed build articles about assembly, soldering techniques and so forth that can apply to builds meant to be raced, the whole point of builds done by Pablo, Rick, Jairus, Steve, etc., is about history and "art," as much as craft and performance... although I am sure any of their builds will perform wonderfully. I've never been much of a chassis scratchbuilder, but I still look at and admire these guys' work for what it is and represents. 

 

As for scratchbuilding for racing, podiums matter of course and there is a different kind of value in that for sure. Then again, there are a lot more variables involved with winning races than just the chassis dynamics. Besides, the nuts and bolts in all that were mostly figured out many decades ago, and today's race-winning chassis often have "stuff" incorporated in them that almost certainly (in some cases) is for eye-candy points.

I don't "know" Mr VanPeenen or his work, even in today's internet sense, but I take it for granted he does good stuff.  I do know that a statement from him that the things Pablo does are "BS" is really missing the point.


  • Jairus, Steve Deiters, miko and 2 others like this
John Havlicek

#10 Don Weaver

Don Weaver

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,468 posts
  • Joined: 26-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington. SC

Posted 08 July 2019 - 06:07 AM

Tis is an "apples and oranges" argument...


  • Cheater, Jairus, havlicek and 1 other like this

Don Weaver

​A slot car racer who never grew up!

 

The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
it will starve to death...


#11 brnursebmt

brnursebmt

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 728 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glencoe, AL

Posted 08 July 2019 - 06:55 AM

I'm surprised that this has even been let go this long. Lock it up now and avoid a ton of problems that should have never been allowed to get started. Total silliness.


  • Samiam likes this

Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

 

"Positivity and optimism can overcome a lot of things." - Tom Brady,  2019


#12 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,190 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 08 July 2019 - 07:03 AM

So far, I haven't seen anything here "lock-worthy." That may happen, and it would be Greg's call of course, but adults should be able to discuss disagreements without preemptively shutting things down. If it gets silly or ugly, then by all means. 

Still, Greg VanPeenen apparently was able to make some comments in this very same forum that ought to be examined... or at least responded to in more detail.


  • rodslot53 and boxerdog like this
John Havlicek

#13 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,221 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 08 July 2019 - 07:09 AM

On both points or just one?


Both, of course.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#14 axman

axman

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 70 posts
  • Joined: 08-December 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Banora Point NSW Australia

Posted 08 July 2019 - 07:46 AM

Man... this GVP sound like a very angry man... needs some serious medication... not nice reading for a hobby I love

and it certainly takes away the warm and fuzzy feel I feel for slots.

 

This guy's rants going from cheating motors to slot car chassis slander is just not needed in our industry. It's hard enough to get new racers so I sincerely hope they don't get to read this crap. 


  • Pablo likes this
Kim Axton

#15 Highnoon

Highnoon

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern OH

Posted 08 July 2019 - 09:18 AM

I’m new to Slotblog and I really try to stand clear of any catfights but I have enjoyed the expert craftsmanship of Pablo’s many creations.

Keep up the good work.

As I side note, I have just completed my first from scratchbuilt chassis since 1992. I used to build a large volume of chassis in the '60-70s and learned how to build fast and relatively clean but nowhere the level of Pablo’s builds. Back in the day I tried to built chassis like Bob Emott but I was more in the Jerry Brady school of chassis building. I just didn’t have the patience, still don’t. I admire people that do.


  • Cheater, Ace and Jesse Gonzales like this
Gary Cooper

#16 brnursebmt

brnursebmt

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 728 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glencoe, AL

Posted 08 July 2019 - 09:33 AM

I respectfully disagree, John. As history has shown, this is only going to end bad.


  • JimF likes this

Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

 

"Positivity and optimism can overcome a lot of things." - Tom Brady,  2019


#17 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,221 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 08 July 2019 - 09:40 AM

And if it does, I'll deal with it, Bobby.

As long as civility is maintained in this thread, it'll stay open.
  • kvanpelt and boxerdog like this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#18 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,445 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 08 July 2019 - 09:57 AM

Hi, Pablo.  :bye:
 
I always enjoy your threads. I wish more builders would share our hobby with pictures and text here like you do.
 
Thank you, my friend. :thank_you2:
  • Pappy, Pablo, kvanpelt and 2 others like this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#19 JimF

JimF

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,218 posts
  • Joined: 20-June 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 July 2019 - 10:24 AM

I love and admire Pablo's work but I agree with Bobby. IMO... this thread is an invitation to discord which generally, I'd say we don't need.

I also very much like Greg's work which is very different in approach and in target. I have no idea of the context of any possible dispute between the two of them but hopefully Mr. GVP will just ignore the bait and keep on keepin' on. Some swimming pools are just not worth jumping into.
  • brnursebmt, Tim Neja, Bryan Warmack and 2 others like this
Jim Fowler

#20 Tim Neja

Tim Neja

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,905 posts
  • Joined: 11-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County

Posted 08 July 2019 - 12:24 PM

This is truly a totaly worthless thread!!  No good will come of it – sad to see Pablo even propose it. I love your builds, Pablo, why invite problems? Who cares what GVP thinks of your work? It stands on it's own merits – be the bigger man and let it go! :)


  • brnursebmt, Tex, JimF and 2 others like this
She's real fine, my 409!!!

#21 mike1972chev

mike1972chev

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 260 posts
  • Joined: 02-April 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indy

Posted 08 July 2019 - 01:30 PM

IDK? Sounds like a bit of a challenge to me. 

 

Mr. Pablo, why not build a car and compete direct"head to head" with this Greg VanPeenen? Just shoot it out directly with him.

 

This is what I do at the drag strip when I ever got "crap talked" by anyone telling me how I lacked to meet some standard.

 

My 2 cents...   ;)


Michael J. Boruff


#22 Jay Guard

Jay Guard

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,632 posts
  • Joined: 10-December 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DeLand, FL

Posted 08 July 2019 - 02:03 PM

I believe there is a basic misunderstanding of Greg VanPeenen's "BS" term that is the root of the problem here. IMO Greg was alluding not to Pablo's obviously excellent building/soldering skills, but rather to all of the little things that he does to produce a car that is virtual jewelry. Things like polishing the ends of spacers with 2000 grit sandpaper and taking the time to produce virtually perfect/even solder joints, not to mention the beautiful polished finish of his chassis.  From Greg's purely competitive viewpoint most of these things are unnecessary from a performance point of view and to him are therefore "BS." As most of us know real 1/1 race cars generally are not polished museum pieces when they hit the racetrack, they are machines made purely to go fast and if they look good, well that is purely an afterthought at best.

 

Greg's record as a chassis builder in Retro is impressive and several of the top drivers have won quite a few major races with his chassis. I believe Pablo's focus is quite different, and is not generally based on a pure performance approach in a given class, even though his cars have competed with considerable success in several proxy races.

 

Bottom line here is that I agree with Don Weaver's statement above that this is actually an apples vs oranges argument and really has little to no merit to continue. Like Greg Wells said, I'll allow this to continue, but be forewarned if it even starts to go off the rails I will shut it down.


  • Pappy, Steve Okeefe, Ecurie Martini and 7 others like this

Jay Guard

IRRA Board of Directors Member, 2007-2010 (non-voting advisor)

Retro Racer & Flat Track Fanatic


#23 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,766 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 09 July 2019 - 12:08 AM

I can think of many more names to add to your list, Paul, right along side you. Dennis Samson, Régis Baron, Marinko, and Tony P to name but a few.

But to make "Retro" a qualifier seems a tad bit narrow a field to fight in.

 

This hobby is wide and broad. Seems a shame to only see it in that shallow a light.


  • Cheater and Pablo like this

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#24 Jesse Gonzales

Jesse Gonzales

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 402 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:AZ

Posted 09 July 2019 - 11:08 AM

Go back to the photo Pablo posted at the beginning of this thread, that is the most beautiful period car/chassis I ever saw and I was around in that period. If that does not inspire one to break out the old Ungar and brass rod something is missing from your program. Yes building Emmott chassis was the goal and many nearly got there. Take a good look at the builders work, you can aspire to such levels of craftsmanship and feel some pride in your work.

 

Jesse Gonzales


  • Pablo and Tim Neja like this

#25 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,125 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou, Mississippi Gulf Coast

Posted 09 July 2019 - 06:46 PM

Thanks to all who posted and I appreciate the kudos.  :)
 
But this isn't about me. I'm only one of the many people Greg VanPeenen continually disrespects. He obviously has chosen not to back up his words calling me out. I don't care what he thinks of me, but when someone questions my motives and techniques, I have to ask for clarification. In this case, the retort was: silence.
 
If he changes his mind in the future, the door is still open for him to explain why he considers my techniques "BS."   :smoking:
You want to spar, you best have your facts straight. I'm fully capable of arguing rationally and calmly, but my name is "Paul." not "Patsy."  ^_^ 
Paul Wolcott





Electric Dreams Online Shop