38 replies to this topic

[swodem]

C-can are specifically made for slot car racing, relatively low batch numbers, mainly in US but also other countries and typically to a very high tolerance.

Minicans are made for generic use in China en masse, to a low but generally tolerable level of quality and materials. Hence the variability of them.

That’s why the cost difference.

[team burrito]

i like the mini-motor; they're inexpensive & very fast. i built one with a x-12 arm with ceramic magnets & put it in a gt12 chassis. the car handles very well & is very quick around the flat track. the funny thing is a c-can motor can weigh less than a mini-motor, depending on the set-up. i believe the mini-motor is the better set-up because of its compact size & it can be mounted closer to the rear axle.

[havlicek]

LOL.
 
Are you basing that opinion on what a C-can costs over time vs. F or D cans or are you just arguing for the sake of argument?
 
I guess when one hasn't ever had to buy a new can, or whatever, it clouds their world view of what new stuff costs.

 
LOL.

Are you averse to reading the posts leading up to this point, or do you just like jumping-in and commenting for the sake of argument and self aggrandizement? I guess when one is so invested in the value of their own opinion, actually backing it up doesn't really matter.

Let me break it down even further for you. The C, D and minicans are all made from plated mild steel that has been formed, folded and seam welded. All use plastic molded endbells with similar brush hardware screwed in place. If the country of origin matters, then any of them could be made here or overseas. The tooling and design costs for the C-can was already basically done for decades with upgrades along the way.  

The various closed FK type motors like the Hawk Retro and similar I do get. They are both as well "sealed" as can be and very cheap... perfect for Retro.

[Cheater]

John,

 

What you are forgetting is the concept of 'economy of scale.'

 

It is inherently cheaper to manufacture millions of an item than it is to manufacturer a few thousands. Henry Ford made that point rather clearly starting in the mid-teens.

[jimht]

What John is really forgetting is that others are entitled to disagree with his flawed opinions.

[team burrito]

What John is really forgetting is that others are entitled to disagree with his flawed opinions.

somebody need a time-out.

[havlicek]

John,

 

What you are forgetting is the concept of 'economy of scale.'

 

It is inherently cheaper to manufacture millions of an item than it is to manufacturer a few thousands. Henry Ford made that point rather clearly starting in the mid-teens.

 

Hi Greg.  That is sooooo true (*economy of scale), but I didn't forget it at all.  Of course, now that someone came up with the minican and both PS and JK probably have a bazillion of them, this entire discussion could be seen as "academic", but my real question is (*and has been), why did the minican ever come to be?  Look at it this way, if someone wanted to come out with a cheaper C can produced in China, that would have been easy...and it would automatically have had a whole boatload of compatible parts and chassis to go along with it.  Instead, the minican came out for some (still) unknown reason.

 

What John is really forgetting is that others are entitled to disagree with his flawed opinions.

 

No Jim, you apparently have a hard time with English.  None of what I said or even asked about is "opinion", and you still haven't answered my question, despite your nonsense posts.  Your snarky "it's about cost, it's about cost, it's about cost, it's about cost, it's about cost," and passive-aggressive "LOL" is less of an "answer" than anything I've said remotely resembles "opinion".  So, since you have no answer and are intent as being seen as authortitative on the subject even so, why not just say nothing?  It took Bill several posts to finally say he doesn't know why the minican was introduced...and that was painful enough.

[jimht]

The original opinion:

 

 "I've said it before, but I don't really see a reason for the D-can and the minicans when the "C" can do it all, and really well. "

 

This is opinion, not fact, just as saying "why do anything one doesn't agree with?" is an opinionated question.

 

The response from me and others to your thickheaded denial of reality as presented in response to your inquiry:

 

The market for smaller motors in slot cars is larger than the market for bigger motors in slot cars and allows for better economies of scale and that is why the F can exists.

 

Well, yes, C cans are really fine but the market for them is not the same as the market for smaller faster or cheaper motors in both wing and scale slot cars. 

 

The C can as it was until it became specialized toward Group 12 no longer exists and why would anyone produce more of them now when there's no demand?

 

To tool up to make an equivalently expensive motor that has less of a demand is nonsensical. 

 

F and D motors do not exist as alternatives to C motors.

They exist because there's a demand for them.

[Zippity]

Green type is indicative of a sick mind and a sick racer. Period!

[havlicek]

 

The original opinion:

 

 "I've said it before, but I don't really see a reason for the D-can and the minicans when the "C" can do it all, and really well. "

 

This is opinion, not fact, just as saying "why do anything one doesn't agree with?" is an opinionated question.

No, the C can motor is small enough for any 1/24 and even 1/32 slot car, and is a better motor than any minican motor.  No one here has disagreed with that...but no one has also said why it is the minican was introduced.

 

 

The response from me and others to your thickheaded denial of reality as presented in response to your inquiry:

 

The market for smaller motors in slot cars is larger than the market for bigger motors in slot cars and allows for better economies of scale and that is why the F can exists.

 

OK...so if we're going to go there, I could call you a numbskull with good reason...but I won't.  You still haven't, and most likely can not, answer my question, so go away and pollute someone else's thread with your self-important gibberish.  There are those who can...and those who carp.  You are a carp.

[swodem]

This thread makes me want to try a PS4002FK or PS4007 arm in a c-can...

[swodem]

...the funny thing is a c-can motor can weigh less than a mini-motor, depending on the set-up....

 

I would like to see some evidence of that

[jimht]

"the C can motor is small enough for any 1/24 and even 1/32 slot car"

 

 No it isn't. Just try sticking it into almost any 1/32 scale car that an F sized motor fits in.

 

Please read what I wrote:

 

"The market for smaller motors in slot cars is larger than the market for bigger motors in slot cars and allows for better economies of scale and that is why the F can exists."

 

AFAIK the first batch of Proslot FK motors were sold in the European market to customers that wanted such a motor.

 

I am not privy as to all the reasons why Dan Debella and Jerry Kulich both decided to have rebuildable F can motors made instead of making more C cans, but I am sure that they spent less money doing it  than if they had had the Chinese make another variation on the C can.

Just the availabilty of F sized neo magnets and cans from the Mini-Z or sealed F motor market may have been enough to make it worthwhile instead of having more expensive C sized magnets made...you'll have to ask them for the details. 

 

They were also able, intentionally or not, to bring something new and interesting to a market that had squeezed about as much as it could out of the C can as a basic motor.  

It had become so overpriced and specialized with all its lighter and flimsier variations that it had fallen out of favor as a basic motor in 1/24 scale slot cars.

 

I like to think they were looking at the fun we all might have playing with something new as part of their decision to go with the F can.The thing about this stuff that brings joy to you and all the others that like to tinker with slot car stuff is that it's not as much fun when someone else has taken it to the limit already.

 

F cans open up a new fun thing to play with.

They are at the same point as the motors I tore apart and rewound and rebuilt in the Sixties. That's where the C cans came from.

 

Your question fails to consider that for now, messing with F cans is more fun than the same old same old as a raison d'être.

 

Your opinion that the C can is "better" does not take into account the reasons why it wasn't better in terms of the gentlemen that forked out the bucks for the F cans.

 

Those reasons may have absolutely nothing to do with the things that make you think it is better choice than the F can for slot cars. 

 

[havlicek]

I've already given you way more respect than you deserve...done.