153 replies to this topic

[mdiv]

Hi bloggers.

Honestly, I had no idea where to place this topic so I chose this forum as it seemed aptly suited.

As the topic suggests, I would like to hear about your favorite motor from the "Golden Age" of slot car racing.

I welcome any and all input, from Pittmans to whatever was the hot set-up at 23:59:59 on 12/31/69.

I will go first to get the ball rolling.

Pittman 6001BB. This is a motor that feels like a motor should. Metal all around, ball bearings, a beast! My only complaints are that the endbell screws make clearance difficult. Also the shaft is 3/32 (~ 0.093) so finding a nice pinion to get the braking characteristics I want is slightly difficult. Expensive, but beautiful at the same time. I have one in a project car and a mint one in the box that will stay that way unless another project presents itself.

So, there it is, have at it fellahs!

- Mikey!

[Howmet TX]

From my point of view it was the motor known in the UK as the Rikochet MkI- I think a Hitachi in fact, with three slots in the can.

It was cheap, but it had great magnets - we called them 'poor man's Arcos'. So it was great for rewinding. Although it had lousy brushgear with coil springs, and generally fairly tinny build quality, it kept a lot of us club racers happy in those days.

[Marty Stanley]

Wow, what a question! A great one mind you.

Thinking back to the 60's I can remember running just about everything.

Pittman, K&B, Kemtron etc;

But I must say my favorite all time motor was the Mabuchi 26D motor. It had a lot of positive things going for it.

It was cheap.

It was very fast.

It was short, so sidewinders could have decent width tires on them.

I do believe some of the manufacturers had can ball bearing in them.

Once we got into rewinding them, we found the motor had all sorts of potential. I had a "Triple Silver Wind" that would absolutely smoke on the longer tracks in our area.

Kind of like an early version of the Big Arm motors we're using today.

[Jerry Ward]

Well, I had a Champion 707. And a SS-91 Globe motor; still have one!!

Gee, just how old am I?

Jerry

[Marty Stanley]

It's NOT how old do you feel, it's how young do you feel?

As I am getting more experienced, I am finding out it's more of a mental thing than a physical thing.

Think young!

[don.siegel]

Great question!

I think the one I most fantasized about was the DC-196-65X hybrid that was used by so many Mid-West racers... Other mythical motors that I later found as a collector were the Globe SS-91 Screamer and the Pittcan (in fact, I bought one of those in Seattle in about 1974, as a pre-retro thing - and won a Group 12 race with it!)

But of the ones I actually had in hand, I really liked the Versitec SS-101...

I have to agree that the 26D was also a great motor - 3 bucks, ball bearings all around (cheap ones, but still), and excellent performance.

Don

[Jerry Ward]

I also had a Champion 606 motor but back in the day everyone wanted to race with the Globe SS-91 motor.

I feel young even with seven grandkids.

Jerry

[GB14x]

K&B Hellcat for hardbody stockers and the Classic ball bearing motor, I think it was the 460, for the F1 cars.

[mdiv]

I think I am in agreement with the 26D guys as the 6001BB is just an expensive 26D, correct?

I have some Kal-Kar chassis made for BB 26Ds that look incredible! I believe I may have to experiment on my own to find a good one!

- Mikey

[TSR]

I also had a Champion 606 motor...

There never was a "606"... Maybe you mant "607"?

[don.siegel]

No, absolutely nothing to do with each other! The 6001 is an all-American, all-metal motor, designed by Pittman to come up with something more competitive against the Mabuchis - the 26D was just the latest in a line of Mabuchis, probably designed to compete against the rewinds... The 6001 is a bit bigger too, probably between the 26D and 36D, but it's true that both are between the 16D and the 36D.

The regular 6001 was $4.95 and the BB version 9.95, versus $3 for the 26D...

The 26D was a great marketing coup though, since all of a sudden any kid could be more or less competitive for 3 bucks, instead of having to shell out 10 bucks for a rewind that probably wouldn't last too long... I

seem to remember that the Pittcan was announced quite a bit earlier, but Pittman took their time about getting it to market, either for other priorities or manufacturing problems.

Don

[Hworth08]

By far, the best class at our local track used either the Mabuchi 16D ball bearing or the 26D motors with 4.5 inch stock car bodies and the chassis stayed inline even after the anglewinder craze.

The $3.29 motors better be stock! If the track owner even suspected the endbell tabs had been opened, he would hand you a new motor and sell your motor to a slow racer!

Either of these motors were usually good for around ten 200 lap races. Quite similiar to today's Retro cars.

The track also had a Can-Am division. Most of the cars used a motor that started as a Mura or Champion. $15 motors really limited the competitors. Us teens usually just used motors cobbled from the adult leftovers.

[Marty Stanley]

There never was a "606"... Maybe you mant "607"?

Maybe, just maybe, the memory is the first thing to go?

Or is it?

[TSR]

Marty,

This is a brief list of the Mabuchi-based motors produced by Champion:

FT16 and FT16D:

501 (selected stock motor), 502, 503, 504, 507, 507-R, early 517.

FT26 (they never used the FT26D version):

601 (selected stock motor), 607, early 617.

FT36D (they never used the FT36 version):

701 (selected stock motor), 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707. Multiple variations of the 702 to 707 exist.

If you want to argue with memory cells, you found the right guy with more documentation and actual mint/boxed product.

For starters you may want to check on this brief history of the Champion of Chamblee company that I wrote about seven years ago and that will be upgraded as we just purchased the Champion museum collection.

As far as vintage motors from the Classic Era, the Champion 517 issued in 1967 is hard to beat, with more pro-racing successes than any other from the period, and reliability unmatched by any for its performance level.

Regards,

[sportblazer350]

Not being a motor expert, I enjoy racing 36D motors in vintage cars today. I find the commonly found today K&B and Cox 36Ds to be great performers, and have held up in numerous races, with only a replacement of brushes needed to stay alive.

And there are so many NOS motors around today for about $10-$15 that it really amazes me.

[edworth]

Any Pittman gets my vote.

But first a little imagery to Don's most knowledgeable response on the Pittcan:



Similar in size, the Pittman 2001 (on the right) is a bit taller.
The Mabuchi's strong points were same of any wide ranging performance engine: price, plentiful, parts, and potential. Rather the small-block Chevy of their time. That low price and bins of misc parts available allowed a builder to hop up two 26s for the price of a single Pittcan.

That 4P's formula kept four-banger Model A, B, and even Ts in front of Flathead V8s for some years.

(A little tapping of the endbell and countersinking of the case will allow a small flat-head machine to be substituted on the case. I think Rick presented that trick in a past thread. Don't try it without proper prep and clean-up...)

But for sentimental reasons this beautifully-engineered little dog is my favorite:



Unlike even the 2001, the DC706 hadn't a gram of stamped sheet metal in it. Cast alloy side plates. Rolled brass tops and bottoms. Serious brushes, replaceable without teardown. Easy to evenly increase pressure.

But disadvantages run on and on... Odd mounting limited applications, unless you were creative. Gear ratios fixed, though could be changed by a skilled hobbyist. Thick, creating difficulty in running low clearance (ask Glenn).

Oh yes, it was rather slow, too.

... I have the Cox-killer on the drawing board. A 706 hardbody to whip any stock-motor Chappy, GT, or Cheetah of the legendary mag frame era.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

Like Ed, I have an unreasnable fondness for the Pittman 704-5-6. There was a brief window for me in '63-4 where one of the small club tracks I was racing on where a stock 704-6 was all the motor you needed, the club required SCALE tires, meaning 1-1/4" or so, so that the clearance wasn't a problem. There was a feedback system. I had ONE motor, won, the purse could buy TWO motors. Grin.

Otherwise, I don't remember ever running a stock motor! For me, they were just raw materials. And being a little savvy about the motor was a real edge when compeating with adults who had real jobs instead of homework!

In the day, I ran highly modified 26Ds as we have discussed in other threads. And none of the expensive motors, like the Pittcan, 101, and so on even got a look. That was a LOT of money in '66. Saving to afford college you know. But this was also a period where my "edge" involved doing a total car teardown every race. Which made things like "Pittman reliability" useless. I was winding very hot 26Ds that would barely survive the ONE race.

But a few years later when Greg, Don, and I are chatting by mail about retro, the nostaliga factor had made the 26Ds "rare and collectable" in any form. I remember whining to Greg that a $2.50 motor was going for $45 on the market. But the Pittcan was a mere $5 to 10! The Pittcan reliability came in. The motor fit into my 26D frames without mods AND I didn't have to do a teardown every time I ran it! So, these days, my 26D survivors all have Pittcans.

There was some irony to the number of survivors. In that the sudden transition for me in August to the Hemi/Hemibuchi made much of the equipment for the 26D irrelevent. No cannibalizing of frames for the new ones! Thus, a surprising number survive... but with Pittcans.

Fate

[Mark Wampler]

I miss the 26Ds. Had a lot of fun with them before anglewinders came out

[Darkron9]

My favorite from that era was and still is the old Kemtron 8V X-503. Tough motor, I still have mine today and it still runs. Coupled with a Dynamic sidewinder chassis, it started off with a Maserati body, next a McLaren Elva, a white Olds 88 for stock car racing, and finally exists today as a Vanwall GP car.

I even used it wired to a Strombecker home set power supply to to true tires for my other cars at the time.

As one other guy pointed out, the Mabuchi 16D was another favorite. The small block Chevy of its day.

I was a pretty mediocre driver back then, but I remember Chris Chan tagging me to be part of his three-man enduro team at Revell Raceways Westchester. He coached me on driving and trained me to drive with my left hand instead of my right to make me more consistent.

Chris set up an SP80 rewound with 60 turns of 30 wire. A Dynamic frame with those rear axle flex points and the wire front axle and a tongue hinge. LOL, body types were not listed in the rules for this enduro so this was all topped off with a Dynamic Handling Harvey Aluminum Special body. When the "night" portion of the enduro started, Chris taped grain of wheat bulbs on top of the body. I heard lots of grumbling about that. The real hero of the team during that race was Glen Toma who was able to race with the fast guys with this car.

[Jerry Ward]

I'm sorry, I said 606 when I meant 601.

There was a chassis for the Globe motor it came in a nice plastic box. It sold for like $4 or $5 back in the day; anyone remember that? I sawone on eBay a while back; it sold for $128.50.

I wish I still had some of that old stuff...

Jerry

[TSR]

Jerry, about the Versitec Globe chassis, you missed the boat by about six years when you could get one on ePay for an even $20. There was a fellow (initials GN) who had a large supply of them and sold them then.

The "601" was the "selected" stock Champion version of the Mabuchi FT26 (endbell side-drive) motor. They were always nickel plated and retailed for 3 bucks. A good motor as long as track power remained close to 12 volts. It would clean the clock from just about any non-rewound stock motor.

Mabuchi is in great part responsible for the demise of the indestructible but slow US-built motors. It is not so much their lower price as their smaller size and lighter weight that did it. The Pittmans and Kemtrons as well as variations (Strombecker, etc.) simply were out-performed by the smaller Japanese motors and quickly vanished from the slot car raceways top sellers. By 1966, it was pretty much over for them.

[Mark Wampler]

J Mabuchi FT26 (end bell side-drive) motor. They were always nickel plated and retailed for 3 bucks. A good motor as long as track power remained close to 12 volts.

Testors came out with their "3 volt" 26D with the pretty blue wire. What gauge wire was that? I remember when that came out, it flattened everything else around our track other than real good rewinds.

[macman]

For me it was the Classic 36D can drive. whether in the Classic chassis, or the Cox magnesium, this was my favorite... Handled well whether it was in a hardbody or a clear body...

The can-drive Revell SP510x was a close second, in my memory better than the several Cox 150s I had... I had an Asp with a Classic can drive 16D, but this car was not very good at making it thru the deadman... I wasn't that good a driver either... I hadn't figured out that it takes me lots of practice to learn a track... YEARS!!!

[TSR]

Testors came out with their "3 volt" 26D with the pretty blue wire.

Mark, EVERY and ALL Mabuchi FT26 and FT26D stock motors sold by Classic, Dynamic, Champion, Revell, Kal-Kar, K&B, Testor, and any other manufacturer that used it had the blue wire.

The hot tip was to de-winding 10 turns per pole, which made these motors real rockets.

[Mark Wampler]

Mark, EVERY and ALL Mabuchi FT26 and FT26D stock motors sold by Classic, Dynamic, Champion, Revell, Kal-Kar, K&B, Testor, and any other manufacturer that used it had the blue wire.

Well us in small town Buzzard's Breath, CA, only got to see just a little sampling of all the big stuff out there

I just happened to get hold of one of those Testor's 26Ds. Never seen a "Kal-Kar" anything.

I'll have Steve take me on another tour of his upstairs museum. Maybe yours next time, P.

- M

PS... what gauge wire did you say all of the 26s were wound with?