56 replies to this topic

[Phil Hackett]

the evolution of "model car racing" to racing a device on a track with a slot.

even today, the modern "retro" racing, everyone runs the same body.

what wins races is not how skilled you are, but how fast is your car, time n time again this is the way races are won.

 

I've won races bc my car is faster than everyone's, against more skill racers than myself LOL

if my car is 0.1s faster than any other on a king track the race would be mine

 

That's because of "motor" tracks. "Handling" tracks are less popular.

[gc4895]

Physical front tires are an interesting anachronism from the early development of slot cars as a dynamic development from static models to controllable devices suitable for competition. Of course, the slot and guide obviates the need for anything resembling vehicles or devices with 4 wheels. To me one of the most functional and attractive innovations in slot cars are the finely detailed vinyl tire/wheel stickers. They work great, look even greater.

[MattD]

Let's just call cars with 4 real wheels "slot cars" and cars without 4 wheels "electric racing devices".

[Bill from NH]

It was Lee Gilbert who first showed us how useless front wheels are on a slot car. His PNW AMCA group in the Seattle area ran on an American Black, & a Canadian White, both flat road courses.  They used fronts  on their JRL class,  but production flexi classes & eurosports  first ran wing car fronts common pinned to a body's uncut wheelwells.. Photos of these fronts were in OWH  race reports for several years during the late '90s & early 2000's. After a few years, Lee replaced the wing fronts with authentic wheel drawings on stickers. Stickers have been around for at least 15 yrs, the cow is already out of the barn.      

[Mbloes]

Pretty neat. Just curious, what bodies do you run?

 

Just to be crystal clear, those cars are all 1/32nd scale.

 

And all bodies are lexan.  So, from top to bottom:

 

• The JK chassis in the back has a Truescale TI 22.
• The Mack chassis up front has a Betta 90's Mercedes C9 with the wing that was separate and you actually attach to the car.
• The F1 car with the small setup has a Betta old style Williams.
• The F1 car with the retro motor is modern F1 chassis dimensions, so has some modern generic F1 bod.
• The long Mack chassis has a Betta BMW 318ti that's cool but kind of squashed.
• The short Mack chassis has a Truescale Ferrari 312.

 

I've posted a few of these here in the past so you can search my stuff and find them.

[bbr]

Does anglewinder/sidewinder make it possible to run without front wheels?
Inlines still requires front wheels for the car to handle properly?

[Bill Seitz]

I build my own chassis and like to tinker with different designs both inline and sidewinder. I have not found a chassis of either type that does not corner better without front wheels. There are ways to minimize or work around the negative effects of front wheels, but no front wheels seems to work best. I have yet to find an inline that works as well as a sidewinder, but that hasn't stopped me from continuing to tinker with them.

 

I used to be a strong advocate of slot cars must have front wheels. I relinquished that position about 10 years ago and now have only a vintage Eurosport that has O-ring front wheels. However, I am plotting two new chassis for open wheel bodies that will have front wheels because they just would not look right without them. Will give me an opportunity for experimenting with some new ideas on slot car geometry with front wheels.

[Eddie Fleming]

Bill I don't think anyone said slot-cars work better with front wheels. Only that some of us like racing more realistic looking cars that have front wheels. 

 

As for the little 1/2' o-ring or plastic fronts.just throw them out and use stickers or not.

 

For classes that require fronts like Retro racing the fronts are just part of the challenge.

 

It is not always about what is the fastest way to go. most times it is about going fast within a box of rules.

 

Whatever you like to race, race on And have fun.

[Pablo]

Hey if you are throwing out 1/2" O-Ring wheels, I'll take some. I use 'em all the time

[Phil Hackett]

The RevTech Iso chassis required front wheels to work properly. PDL's Diamond chassis is another that would have been a failure without front wheels but, alas, different times, conditions, and attitudes long past.....

[MSwiss]

Take the front wheels off of a Retro F1 car and I'm pretty sure you'll have a bad time.

[Zippity]

To me one of the most functional and attractive innovations in slot cars are the finely detailed vinyl tire/wheel stickers. They work great, look even greater.

 

Front wheels are like the dinosaurs - extinct   

[Nonfractal]

Does anglewinder/sidewinder make it possible to run without front wheels?
Inlines still requires front wheels for the car to handle properly?

Motor format has some bearing on the usefulness of front wheels , especially if the flux leakage from the motor is creating some downfoce from the steel track rails.

"Centre of gravity" has more impact.

My club slot.it touring cars have a tendancy to tip and roll so need so need some front contact in the corners.

My club NSR moslers do not roll and so don't rely on their front wheels to corner effectively.

AlanW

[Pablo]

Take the front wheels off of a Retro F1 car and I'm pretty sure you'll have a bad time.

John Clow had a retro F1 car launch at Peachtree City and lost the fronts. He finished the race, the car still ran "OK" but a lot of the handling definitely was gone.

[MSwiss]

Both fronts?

What, did the front axle get torn off?

I'm surprised the race director let him continue.

[Pablo]

The axle assembly got halfway torn off near the end of the race. Had he continued with it on, it probably would have come off and become a hazard. It made laps fine and wasn't causing any problems so he just nursed it best he could and finished the race. But like I said, the handling wasn't great without them.

[MSwiss]

Sorry, not fair to the racers with cars with 4 tires, to have to drive their legal car next to someone going slow, with an illegal car.

[Pablo]

I'm just reporting the facts, which support your statement that a retro F1 car benefits from fronts.

[Martin]

I have never owned a slot car without front wheels, my question is this.

Does a car without front wheels have a potential to damage the track and why would a track owner risk that?

[Isaac S.]

Why would it damage the track? 

[SpeedyNH]

we didn't run fronts in the AMCA "scale" series that i ran (with the exception of the JK open wheel cars). we had two flexi classes (a-prod and b-prod), then gt-12 and eurosport. we used stick-on or little plastic wing car fronts so it kinda looked like they were there.

the chassis front wings were flat against the track and picked up mud (it was a light spray glue series). we never saw any track damage over several years of racing. all our tracks were in good condition though, with no gaps or vertical misalignments. they were all professional Ogilvies "or equivalent" and very smooth. 

funny thing is, we ran 99% of our races in the reverse direction with swapped lead wires. sometimes we had to fix braid bumps at section joints the first time around, but we Never had any racing surface issues. couple track owners were leery at first, but we'd go do some testing and then they were fine with it. 

we had so much fun a couple guys had me rewire their track backwards so they could make it permanent! Lol 

again, we never saw it hurt the track. 

[Martin]

Thanks Steve for the report.

"Why would it damage the track?"

Isaac. my thinking was simple. Metal chassis, wood track, cars tip plus high down-force. Is it not the same reason we have 1/16'' track clearance and must run bodies. I thought this was to protect the track?

 

But if its not a problem as Steve and others have said I will crawl back into my cave.

Now its just about aesthetics and rules.

[Isaac S.]

That reasoning makes sense. Without the support of fronts the chassis could potentially hit. I know that on many cars the front axle and wheels balance out the chassis. An example of this is some HO cars, the fronts don't even touch the track but without them they don't drive well.   

[MSwiss]

As Steve mentions in #46, no front wheels, no front clearance rules, don't seem to damage tracks, or certainly not nearly as much as you would think.

Possibly the track always having a bit of a rubber coating on it, could be a factor, why the steel skids aren't that lethal.

IMO, braid damage is mostly from too low of clearance in the rear.

And gouges in the surface are most likely from cars having a rear tire fall off.

Or in the case of the picture below, the inconsiderate racer having his nine-year side tire fall off, and keep driving until the rear axle with the spur gear and other tire came out of the rear end.

The car hit the Bank, on White, without a rear end.

It chopped one side of the braid in two.

Luckily, it was a clean break, the braid was almost new, and still real clean, and I was able to fix it in about 5 minutes, with a soldering iron.

Here's what the repair looks like, 16 years later.

It's about due for a touch-up. Lol

[Bill from NH]

Some of those AMCA front wings had dots or squares of lexan stuck to the wing's under side for "skating,". You could also punch a divot in the top of a wing with a punch for a permanent  semi-ball on the bottom side.