71 replies to this topic

[dc-65x]

The Champion "Jail Door" chassis is very cool indeed. I especially like the later version (photos courtesy of Gator Bob):

 

 

 

Since I don't have one I'm going to scratch build my own.  

 

I think the neatest feature of the chassis are the main rails. Their shape and arrangement are unique. One end of the rail is a normal 90 degree bend but the other features two 45 degree bends. Half of the rails have this unique bend facing forward and the other half facing to the rear (photo courtesy of Slot Car Rod):

 

 

These rails can be made with just a pair of pliers but getting 8 rails with those 45 degree bends identical is difficult. I made up a bending fixture to handle the job. The fixture can make 4" and 4 1/2" wheelbase rails:

 

 

Another advantage of this fixture is the larger and smoother radius you get bending the rod around the 1/8" pins.

 

This is the first 45 degree bend: 

 

 

Now the second 45 degree bend:

 

 

Lastly the 90 degree bend. The rail length varies by 1/16" depending if the rail is to be positioned in front or behind the rear axle tube. So a spacer is placed over the pin with the red arrow to space the bend for the longer rail:

 

 

The 2 different length main rails:

 

 

That was the easy part. Now I need to trim them to length and put a nice chamfer on each cut. I could just Dremel them all at once after soldering but then they wouldn't have the smooth chamfered ends. This is going to take some time but the end result will be worth it.......

[Pablo]

[Bill from NH]

Another building advantage of the "Champion-type" jail door chassis is that all rails are the same length. Rick, are you using K&S brass rod for the rails. or another product?

[dc-65x]

I just use K&S hobby shop brass for everything. Maybe Champion used some trick rod but that's OK.

 

As for the rail lengths, they are different for the later chassis with the 7/32" rear axle tubes than for the earlier version with 5/32" axle tubes front and rear. The rails that go behind the 7/32" rear axle tube have to be 1/16" longer than the ones positioned in front of it.

[Aeropro]

What a beautiful, classic chassis. Thanks!

[dc-65x]

Here is another classy feature of the late Champion chassis:

 

 

The Champion name proudly displayed on the piece is a nice touch:

 

 

 

I've got the main rails and motor bracket. Now I need a motor so I can get things set up in the chassis jig and start building....

[Pablo]

The thing I like about those vintage Champion brackets is, new Champion endbells that fit are still available

[Dave Crevie]

What everyone seems to have missed is the great fixture you made, Rick. I don't see any layout lines on it, so I will assume you made it by jig drilling the holes using a DRO. Great work!

[Bill from NH]

The thing I like about those vintage Champion brackets is, new Champion endbells that fit are still available

 

Champion has a second vintage inline bracket that's different than Rick's. It uses the sleeve bushings, but is braced differently, & looks heavier. The one I have is plated silver, but it's been used on factory chassis plated in both silver & gold (yellow). I don't recall when I got it, but my guess is mine is a newer version.

[dc-65x]

I've been getting PM's requesting me to make up sets of main rails. I only shared my little rail bending gizmo to show there are ways for us to make up vintage replica components for our builds. 

 

Rather than answer the PM's individually I thought I'd respond here.

 

I'm over 70 and my scratch building time is running short. So thank you for your interest and I'm sorry but I really want to spend the time I have left on my own projects.

[dc-65x]

For comparison here is an earlier version of Champion's rear axle bracket:

 

 

It uses 5/32" tube for the axle bushings:

 

 

This bracket allows all the frame rails to be the same length.

[Basement Racer]

Hey Dave. Post #8. What is a DRO?

[dc-65x]

Sorry, I forgot to answer Dave's post. No DRO. I just have some dial indicators rigged up to my old Clausing mill:

 

 

Jim, a DRO refers to a digital read out for positioning on a milling machine for example:

 

[Basement Racer]

Thank you Rick! I always pay attention to your building posts. I have some machinery but nothing like your milling machine.

[Phil Smith]

What everyone seems to have missed is the great fixture you made, Rick. I don't see any layout lines on it, so I will assume you made it by jig drilling the holes using a DRO. Great work!

 

Possibly the layout is on the other side? Or did you use your dial gauges, Rick?

[dc-65x]

Phil, I used the machine dials to move from front axle pins to the rear axle pins. I have a 2" travel dial indicator on the machine's X axis and a 1" travel dial on its Y axis to locate the pin holes at each axle location.

[Bill from NH]

Not that it matters any, but the confusion about Champion jail door chassis is largely due to the fact that Champion sold two different configurations of their 285 chassis without changing the part number, Those made prior to May, '68 had a 5-rod brass drop arm, body mounting strips that would accept screws, & the old motor bracket Rick shows above. The chassis after May, '68 looked like Rick's first photos, a solid brass drop arm, redesigned body mounts with pin tubes, & the new motor bracket. Sketches of both configurations are below.

 

 

 

 

(TY Jim Allen for the sketches)

[Martin]

I have always liked this chassis, great project Rick.

 

Will you be making a wire drop arm? I always thought it would be cool to take the best of both versions, to make an all wire version.

 

The stamped drop arm seemed like a cheap fix for Champion.

[Isaac S.]

I would disagree with that. I would bet the tooling for the wire drop arms was cheaper than for the stamped one. And the stamped drop arm provided better weight distribution and strength. It also paved the way for the later one-piece drop arms.

However, I do agree that the wire one looks cooler.

And thanks for the comparison Rick. Very cool and great pictures.

[dc-65x]

The great thing about scratch building is you can take a project anywhere your imagination leads you.  

 

My idea for this particular build is to go with the last of the inline parts. The center section with 8 parallel rails, the last version of the inline rear bracket I showed, a 3/4" plate drop arm.........

 

 

.......and the floating pans:

 

 

This particular versions parts were introduced well into the Pro angle winder era. But that also allows me to use this cool motor from the same timeframe:

 

 

 

I'm going to use this motor as is to build the chassis. Then I'll crack it open, show what's inside and freshen it up.

[Martin]

The stamped drop arm works well with the stamped floating pans

 

It gets my STAMP of  approval 

[Dave Crevie]

I would disagree with that. I would bet the tooling for the wire drop arms was cheaper than for the stamped one. 

 

While the wire drop arm would only require a fixture, the stamped drop arm would require a punching and forming die. However, the die could be run in a flywheel press, like a Walsh, and turn out a thousand or more drop arms in an hour. Even with furnace soldering, I doubt that more than 20 or so wire drop arms could be made in an hour. So the extra cost of the stamping die is offset by the man hours saved, even with a small run job like a slot car chassis. How many of those drop arms were made? I see a lot of them around, even now.

 

What I find as super cool is that these parts can still be found, and used by uber-enthusiasts like Rick to replicate the cars of days gone by. Jolly good show!

[Martin]

 

While the wire drop arm would only require a fixture, the stamped drop arm would require a punching and forming die. However, the die could be run in a flywheel press, like a Walsh, and turn out a thousand or more drop arms in an hour. Even with furnace soldering, I doubt that more than 20 or so wire drop arms could be made in an hour. So the extra cost of the stamping die is offset by the man hours saved, even with a small run job like a slot car chassis. How many of those drop arms were made? I see a lot of them around, even now.

 

 

Well said Dave, I bet you have made lots of tooling over the years. As have I. The punch press always wins given enough parts to make.

 

Finding these parts today is an indicator of the amount that were made back in the day. So glad they can still be found so that builders can recreate.

 

Build on Rick.
 

[dc-65x]

Okie dokie Martin  

 

The chassis jig is set up with my 1/8" gizmos slid over the pins to give a 13/16" spacing that matches the axle bracket. The outer pins on the jig are for locating the drop arm hinge and down stop:

 

 

All 8 rails in place and in Champions unique orientation:

 

 

The rails were spaced with K&S 1mm brass rod:

 

 

Time to do some trimming and buffing and see how it looks........

[Dave Crevie]

It's been a long, strange road, Martin. Started as a general machinist/toolroom apprentice in the fall of 1970, but left in May of 1971 to work for the National Railroad Museum as a backshop machinist and master mechanic, restoring steam locomotives. Went back to tool and die in the fall of 1972, but continued restoring steam locos and vintage railroad equipment part time for another five years. Then concentrated on tool and die, but worked nights for Howler Welding, getting certified in every type of welding there was. I moved around to several different shops, doing different types of manufacturing, from cold work and metal stamping to plastic injection molding. I finally settled in die casting, where I worked for over 25 years. The company did a lot of defense work, so I did pretty well there. Since it is common for toolmakers to move around, we get a wealth of experience in many different fields of the industry.