43 replies to this topic

[Eddie Fleming]

 Back in the 60s when many of us got involved in the slot car hobby, racing was easy. I took whatever car I had to the track and raced it against whatever car you had. My K&B GT40 against your Monogram Ferrari, or whatever. The first race I remember the shop did not even have a lap counter. The owner counted 10 laps and it was over. There was no entry fee and no prize and it was all good. All the cars were built with a screwdriver. I didn't know which end of a soldering iron to hold. 
 
 I think getting back a little closer to that day could be a good thing for racing. JK box stock is interesting but nobody is satisfied with the motors. The tracks changes the motor rules to make someone happy and then it is not box stock so I can't just walk in and race my car from another track and it may not be possible to buy a competitive car over the counter. I can imagine a class with very few rules and not super fast, just fun.
 
 That brings me to EZ-Class. 
1 One motor only (Chicagoland CR102) because it is the most consistent motor I know.
 
2 Any commercial unmodified chassis using screw in motors. inline, anglewinder, or sidewinder (no soldering)
 
3 ground clearance in the rear is .050, and under 3.25 inches wide
 
4 body must be  .010 or thicker and no air control
 
5 gear ratio must be 3 to 1
 
Less go racin boys.

[Rob Voska]

 Back in the 60s when many of us got involved in the slot car hobby, racing was easy. I took whatever car I had to the track and raced it against whatever car you had. My K&B GT40 against your Monogram Ferrari, or whatever. The first race I remember the shop did not even have a lap counter. The owner counted 10 laps and it was over. There was no entry fee and no prize and it was all good. All the cars were built with a screwdriver. I didn't know which end of a soldering iron to hold. 
 
 I think getting back a little closer to that day could be a good thing for racing. JK box stock is interesting but nobody is satisfied with the motors. The tracks changes the motor rules to make someone happy and then it is not box stock so I can't just walk in and race my car from another track and it may not be possible to buy a competitive car over the counter. I can imagine a class with very few rules and not super fast, just fun.
 
 That brings me to EZ-Class. 
1 One motor only (Chicagoland CR 102) because it is the most consistent motor I know.
 
2 Any commercial unmodified chassis using screw in motors. inline, anglewinder, or sidewinder (no soldering)
 
3 ground clearance in the rear is .050, and under 3.25 inches wide
 
4 body must be  .010 or thicker and no air control
 
5 gear ratio must be 3 to 1
 
Less go racin boys.

 
Check out Richard Mack's Genisis chassis both 1/32 & 1/24.

[MSwiss]

Rob,

I'm sure they are great, but except for a $72.18(non-Genesis) kit, not available through U.S. distributors.

 

http://sales.eriraci...dex.aspx?key=mr

 

https://www.eagledist.com/mack-chassis

[bbr]

Lets not forget a spec weight n spec tires

 

 

my entry:

 

[mreibman]

I am always opposed to rules that specify gear sizes (not pitch) or ratio. That's part 9f making up for motor variables.

I also believe that there shouldn't be a 'one brand only" rules. Part of that issue comes from these sealed motors in the first place. Motors should be defined by a spec, and anything meeting that spec, or a selection meeting that spec, should be ok.

For instance, I buy a car over the counter made by JK. My friend buys one made by Mid America. Are you going to then force one or both of us to modify the car just to meet the arbitrary selection? See? Silly.

Take a page from the AWRA and list comparable solutions, give racers some options.

Otherwise just do RWYB (run what you brung) racing for fun.

[jimht]

Two driver classes, one break-out by laps &/or time and one heads up.

One minute lane changes with nothing allowed but changing the lane sticker.

 

I agree with no soldering/bolt-together only...anything that makes the cars more reliable puts the RTR over the counter car at at disadvantage.

Repair and maintenace simplicity is critical, not tuning.

Womps were fun because all everyone needed was a pair of pliers, allen wrenches and a hammer.

 

Require spec gears and a minimum clearance.

 

Motor variations will be a killer unless there are options allowed that are faster than what comes in an RTR.

Allow several motors about the same price and speed that are fast enough to be challenging and use the break-out race to control the racers that just have to win using their deep pockets.

[MSwiss]

That brings me to EZ-Class. 
1 One motor only (CL 102) because it is the most consistent motor I know.
 
2 Any commercial unmodified chassis using screw in motors. inline, anglewinder, or sidewinder (no soldering)
 
3 ground clearance in the rear is .050, and under 3.25 inches wide
 
4 body must be  .010 or thicker and no air control
 
5 gear ratio must be 3 to 1

Eddie,
Thanks for the props on the motor.

I've been real lucky so far with my vendor, and they seem real receptive to advice/critique, from me.

I think you are off a bit on the gear ratio.

Retro guys aren't running 3-1, with .810 tires.

More like a 14 or 15 tooth pinion, with a spur sized to fit easily in the JK C21 chassis.

BTW, here's some recent props from a drag racer, on the the CR102.

[Eddie Fleming]

Yes mike I know the gear ratio is off but my thought was to not go as fast as possible but rather to make the driving easier for less experienced racers.

 

with the hawk 7 I can go much faster with a 13/37, but the BS cars come geared 10/36.

[MSwiss]

Part of my thinking is that possibly with controllers without a brake adjustment, they might have too much brakes, and be a little tricky to drive.(too herky-jerky)

[elvis44102]

everybody racing monogram midgets was the most fun "limited speed cars" we ran in the 60s we used cox controllers and nobody would even think of disconcerting their brake lol

[snolde]

Like the idea Eddie,

 

To keep cost down for the entry level person the controllers should be a spec too. 

Parma use to sell a kit for the entry level person that had a Group 10 complete car  with a controller in a small tool box.

I think it came with some basic tools like a couple of allen wrenches.

So maybe spec a inexpensive resistor controller for the class.

[bbr]

an ez class would be great for the newbie... guys that already raced a while should stay away - they know too much, even with very spec equipment they will  dominate

[Eddie Fleming]

Mike

 You are correct about experienced drivers dominating. The problem these days is getting enough inexperienced drivers to participate to have a class. The entry level classes be it BS or EZ or whatever should be divided into two levels Call it Pro & Am. With enough entrants you can run two races but in most cases today it would need to be a mixed class race with pro and am winners. The am winner should receive full race win recognition just as the over all race winner does. It would be much like full size sports cars racing different classes in the same race. 

[Dave Crevie]

I have never been a fan of spec racing, slots or real. Nor have I supported one manufacture spec on any part. But there needs to be something promoted as a "Ground level" class. A few years ago Swiss promoted a "Hero" class that we all had a great time with. Even the kids and beginners. The cars were JK C-11s with Falcon 7 motors. Although other chassis were allowed, and Pro-Slot minis with the Chinese arms, pretty much everyone stuck with the same format. The bodies were mostly the Red Fox Lola open cockpit GTP style. This class stayed viable for several years, starting when Mike was in LaGrange and continuing when he moved to Downer's Grove. I got a chance to race with some very serious locals, and some Dads that were regulars brought their kids and got them started in slot racing.

 

This has all been hashed about before, but what is really needed is someone who will do more than just talk. Set down the rules in stone. Don't keep changing them to satisfy complainers. And please, let's have at least one person from each of our geographic regions take the reins and push this. If that happens, there could end up being a national event. Wouldn't that be cool. 

[Paul Lindewall]

"If you build it, they will come argue over it."
 

[Eddie Fleming]

At this point I can build a EZ car quick enough by putting a CR-102 motor in a JK BS car with a 12/36 gear, but with the Atlanta track having lap counter issues testing is less than ideal.

 

If anyone wants to put together any kind of EZ car and report on it I would like to hear it.

[Tex]

Scaleauto and BRM slot cars are pretty much spec cars, makes for good racing. Kinda pricey for an initial buy but, once you have the car and it's set up(pretty minimal, just make sure things are square and straight), it's pull it out of the box, add a drop of oil her or there, and go racing. very durable cars. once through with a race, chunk it into the box until the next time.

[Rob Voska]

A fixed class gives a new person a STABLE TARGET to shoot for.  Not the ever changing variables that most other classes do.   Does it really matter if a beginner is running a good solid car so long as it is the same for everyone they are racing against?

 

Yes there needs to be a class advanced system when beginners have enough to do to stay on the track there also needs something to keep more experienced racers interested.

Handicapping with bodies?  Handicapping with laps like a golfer?  Break out times?  Stability of classes?   These issues really needs a lot of discussion.    

[Eddie Fleming]

There is no line of new racers at the door every time the raceway opens. Whatever classes the raceway runs must have or generate enough interest among the existing base to even schedule races. 

[MSwiss]

Great last post, Eddie.

I'll reiterate about the importance of gearing the car correctly.

IMO, a super-conservative gear ratio, while reducing the lap times for beginners, will be a bummer for the existing racers, probably create a car too punchy, and most likely accentuate the small differences in motors.

[gc4895]

Breakout racing is quite interesting. The breakout lap time is crucial. Too slow and the experienced racers complain or get bored. Too fast and the inexperienced guys can't keep pace. In my experience, too fast also pushes the inexperienced racers to make time on the straights with the wrong motors. Probably the single most "destructive" (in terms of competitive racing with minimal crashes) is allowing high torque, difficult to drive motors like the dreaded Phoenix. Exactly the guys that shouldn't choose motors like those for the speed.

A balanced breakout race imposes a kind of democracy on the race. It encourages the inexperienced while placing an artificial muzzle over the experienced, competitive racer. Overall, I think on balance is encourages participation and drives numbers up in terms of participants.

[Dave Crevie]

That's why I say leave the tuning of the cars open. Let the racers change gearing, make tire selections, add weight, anything that doesn't modify the chassis or motor itself. They can seek help from the established track "pros". I have always been able to get advice from the top guys, and I don't think that has changed over the years. Once the newbie becomes competitive, he'll stick with it. He just needs the encouragement from the experienced guys.

[Eddie Fleming]

IMO, a super-conservative gear ratio, while reducing the lap times for beginners, will be a bummer for the existing racers, probably create a car too punchy, and most likely accentuate the small differences in motors.

no argument Mike. I have not experimented with the gearing 3-1 is a easy ratio to achieve with  most any kind of car. Until some laps can be run anything is possible.

[Eddie Fleming]

Is it just me or are we talking like we are trying to start a class?

[snolde]

Eddie,

I would race the JK Box stock series if the Hawk 7 did not have the problems it has.

IMO the Hawk 7 motor bushings are the issue with that motor, 2 step speed and so on.

I will suggest that the motor to use in the JK Box series be changed to the Hawk 7BB.

If JK would offer the BB motor as an option in the RTR cars.

 

Same motor as the H7 but with Ball Bearings I think.

Use the same spec gearing.

 

Don't get me wrong, really like the CR 102 motor in my Retro cars, It's fast and reliable.