34 replies to this topic

[Bill from NH]

A slot car friend sent me this 4 min. You Tube video that some may find interesting.

 

[Phil Smith]

I didn't think about Koford. Stu is probably developing brushless slot car motors and speed controllers as we speak.

 

[Eddie Fleming]

Now that could develop into something

 

if Koford wants to pursue it. 

[Bill Seitz]

This is really nothing new. Koford has been in the brushless motor business a long time, maybe even before slot car motors. What's particularly interesting is that despite decades of making brushless motors for other applications, Koford doesn't market brushless motors for slot cars.

[bbr]

There was not a market for it until recently.
Until I started playing with them, I had no idea that brushless motors are viable for slot car racing.

Motors are cheap with a high level of performance and reliability. And the escs are being developed for slot car application

[MSwiss]

This is really nothing new. Koford has been in the brushless motor business a long time, maybe even before slot car motors. What's particularly interesting is that despite decades of making brushless motors for other applications, Koford doesn't market brushless motors for slot cars.

Definitely not before slot car motors.

He came out with his first slot car motor setup in 1981.

I became his general manager in 1985, and was, until 2004.

I'll guesstimate he started making brushless motors right around the end of last century.

Rather than try to recollect all the different reasons he's told me over the years, why he hasn't got involved in brushless motors, for slot cars, I'll email him with a link to this thread and possibly he'll respond with some comments.

[Don Weaver]

....possibly he'll respond with some comments.

 

It would be interesting to hear from the man that's forgotten more about slot car motors than most people know! 

 

Don

[Stuart]

About 3/4 of our business is brushless motors.  Medical, aerospace, scientific instruments et.

 

There are many reasons why brushless motors are not used in slot car racing.  First a hall sensor motor requires 8 connections and slot car tracks only have two.  You would also need 8 posts per driver at the drivers panel.  Even sensorless motors require 3 connections.  Yes you could take the 14.3 volts from the track braid and install a brushless motor drive and a RC receiver to allow you to control the speed and brakes but the weight of all of that would be more than the rest of the car. Also fitting a standard antenna within the maximum car height limits would be a problem.   Also brushless motors are round and almost always enclosed which makes getting the heat out a problem and also makes the center of gravity high.

[Bags]

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All of those issues have been addressed.

 

 

[Phil Smith]

There was not a market for it until recently.
Until I started playing with them...

 

Exactly! You are the market for them, Mike. The sole market. At least as far is a I know, no one else has purchased a switch.

 

Bags first posted about this on Dec 27 2019. At one paying customer every 2 years, there should be enough brushless slot car owners to have a road course race in 20 or so years.

 

http://slotblog.net/...ss-drag-racing/

[Phil Smith]

I don't mean to be so negative. My apologies.

[Stuart]

The motor pictured is sensorless which means a start up delay at the start of a heat or after a track call.  Since there is not any receiver or speed control the speed range of the motor would be limited to the minimum operating voltage of the drive (probably 5 volts) up to 14.3.  If you let off the trigger far enough that the voltage falls 5 volts the car would just stop.  So it doesn't seem like it would be smooth on low speed corners.  You are losing more than a third of the speed range.  Also outer rotor motors like the one pictured have high inertia compared to regular motors so they would accelerate and brake slower.

 

When they start winning races against regular motors or there is a separate class with enough racers to make it worthwhile then I would be interested.

[bbr]

someone made a 2volt switch, running in euro sport chassis in GB (R Mack)

 

5volt startup not an issue in wing car, been testing one, ran over 500 laps with no drop in performance

[bbr]

I don't mean to be so negative. My apologies.

 

I expect that much, am use to it by now...LOL

[Bags]

We ran a wing race at P-1 in Fla. last month, the motors were Top Secret Intimidator fk style. After the program was detuned in the switch to run with them, the car finished 3rd (podium finish) that was the second time it was raced in a brushed class there. 

[NSwanberg]

There are racers that would not bother racing slot cars if every racer actually had equal motors. I think this should have been the future twenty years ago. Kudos to  the guys that are working on them.

[jimht]

The game is to keep the customer interested in racing as long as possible. Installing monetary barriers is not a good way to do that.

 

There are many relatively inexpensive things to play with in this Hobby...tires, chassis, bodies, gear ratios, etc. and the skills and tools needed are not so hard to attain nor that expensive. OTOH motors have become more like rocket science than a way to keep the cars moving.

 

Raise your hand if you think cheap sealed FK motors are good for RTR cars and beginner racing.

 

Raise your hand if you think a rebuildable c-can motor that is slightly faster than an FK motor shouldn't cost 4 to 10 times as much.

 

Raise your hand if you think insanely priced cobalt segmented grenades have ruined wide participation in Group 7, a class that used to be open to all drivers regardless of skill level, used to be run at all Raceways and the most active fun class in slot car racing.

[Phil Smith]

We ran a wing race at P-1 in Fla. last month, the motors were Top Secret Intimidator fk style. After the program was detuned in the switch to run with them, the car finished 3rd (podium finish) that was the second time it was raced in a brushed class there. 

 

Why do you call it a switch? Is that all it does? Switch from no power to full power, and vice versa?

[bbr]

Racing,,, trends to refine all the parameters, and those refined things cost $$$.

You can look at F1 racing, where a 0.01s determines if you win or lose.
So the same in slot racing, finding that one cheap FK that makes you a winner, or that GT12 arm.
You can legislate the rules as much as you want, but the racers will find ways to spend $$$ to go faster than the other guys.

[jimht]

"You can legislate the rules as much as you want, but the racers will find ways to spend $$$ to go faster than the other guys."

 

True, but allowing expensive fragile parts means that ONLY those who have $$$ can participate.

[Bags]

 

Why do you call it a switch? Is that all it does? Switch from no power to full power, and vice versa?

I guess technically it’s still an ESC Phil……but when that term is used in the slot world it gets misunderstood. So no it’s not an on/off switch it works on the amount of voltage applied to it through a slot car controller. Stop is off then it ramps up to full track voltage as you pull the trigger. The same as a brushed motor works, just it powers a brushless motor.

[bbr]

It's not just $$$ car parts.
Guys spend $$$ on tools that find the fast parts, and pay $$$ to guys that can build the fast cars.
$$$ buys many things, and racing cost $$$

[Phil Smith]

Tom, Richard Mack calls his an ESC. Why would it be considered a switch? It started out life as an ESC, and it's still serving the same function when used for slot cars. Same thing, different application.

[Phil Smith]

A Difalco is an ESC when you think about it.

[Bags]

Tom, Richard Mack calls his an ESC. Why would it be considered a switch? It started out life as an ESC, and it's still serving the same function when used for slot cars. Same thing, different application.

Phil 

you are right, it’s more accurately called a brushless motor controller. How’s that