163 replies to this topic

[MG Brown]

All-American Racers takes its Delta-Wing LMP design to the Windshear facility in Charlotte, NC, for testing.



Read the story here.

[TSR]

Let's wish good luck to the AAR and Highcroft teams. From what I have seen so far, this machine could prove to be quite something...

[MG Brown]

I have to give AAR credit for thinking outside the box.

Unfortunately there has been a sad history of motor sport innovators that had their ideas legislated from competition.

[Cheater]

They had this car on display at the Petit LeMans at Road Atlanta and it was pretty impressive looking.

I have a hard time imagining 25 or 30 of them zooming toward turn one at Indy, though...

[Larry Mattingly]

Car is intended to race at LeMans...

Here is hoping it is a failure...

Didn't care for 'Thingie' slot cars...

Not interested in watching 'Thingie' LMP entries either...

LM

[Dr. Gamma]

I guess if it is not a cookie cutter NASCAR spec car, it's not worth anything in your book??

I can imagine what you thought of Granatelli's first turbine car, or Smokey's 15/16 Chevelle!!!

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[Ace]

It looks like it belongs on the Salt Flats not LeMans. It is also quite ugly front track looks narrow and out of place. As ugly as some of the UOP shadow Can-AM cars were this is way worse. Me thinks someone drank a little to much jet fuel.

[John Streisguth]

Looks like a lawn dart...

[TSR]

I cannot see that this thing is any uglier than those fat-a$$ butt-ugly NASCAR spec machines, or some of the current midget/sprint car/oval car in general, but it has an extremely low drag coefficient, will use half the power and half the fuel to go as fast as standard LMP2, so I will pass on its perceive aesthetics and await to see what it can do.

There were several road cars and racing outfits designed in the same vein in the past, and most turned out to be quite efficient. Some were also legalized out of racing because they were a bit TOO efficient.

[MSwiss]

I'll show my stupidity.

How is it going to handle well with such a narrow front track?

[tonyp]

Ditto.

[Ron Hershman]

How is it going to handle well with such a narrow front track?

They will put a Top Fuel Dragster driver in it... he will show them. LOL.

[Gator Bob]

Gyroscopes and computers, driver optional.

[TSR]

The track of a four-wheel (or three-wheel) vehicle has little to do with its cornering ability. Weight distribution is far more important. This vehicle will in fact handle like a GP sidecar, that uses three wheels to operate. If you have ever seen a sidecar grand prix on TV, you would know that these strange vehicles that often have the two wheels from their "motorcycle" design, offset so as to project the single front wheel more on center, are some of the fastest cornering vehicles on earth. And this with no ground effect or high downforce wings.

There should not be your worry. More worrisome and only to be proven on track are, will the fluid dynamics testing on the 1/4 scale model translate in the 1/1 scale, meaning will half the weight with half the drag translate into the same speed as an equivalent conventional, high downforce car?

AND... let's not forget that the very first automobile race in the world was won by... a tricycle, single front wheel et al, and that De Dion-Bouton smoked all the four-wheel cars by nearly one hour due to its greater ability to take the numerous corners so much faster than the much more powerful cars!

The organizers were so miffed that they disqualified the vehicle as "not a real car".

[Ron Hershman]

AND... let's not forget that the very first automobile race in the world was won by... a tricycle, single front wheel et all, and that De Dion-Bouton smoked all the 4-wheel cars by nearly one hour due to its greater ability to take the numerous corners so much faster than the much more powerful cars!
The organizers were so miffed that they disqualified the vehicle as "not a real car".

Yep a bit backwards from this new creation..... two wheels in the front and one in the rear.

http://en.wikipedia....mdriewieler.GIF

Or was it this one???





Marquis de Dion entered one of these in an 1887 trial, "Europe's first motoring competition", the brainchild of one M. Fossier of cycling magazine Le Vélocipède. Evidently, the promotion was insufficient, for the de Dion was the sole entrant, but it completed the course (with de Dion at the tiller) and was reportedly clocked at 60 km/h (37 mph).

The beginning of racing

Racing began soon after the construction of the first successful gasoline-fueled automobiles. The first race ever organized was on April 28, 1887 by the chief editor of Paris publication Le Vélocipède, Monsieur Fossier. It ran 2 kilometres (1.2 mi) from Neuilly Bridge to the Bois de Boulogne. It was won by Georges Bouton of the De Dion-Bouton Company, in a car he had constructed with Albert, the Comte de Dion, but as he was the only competitor to show up it is rather difficult to call it a race.


Wow smoked no one.


Then

Paris–Rouen: the world's first motor race




Georges Lemaître classified 1st in his Peugeot 3hp
On July 22, 1894, the Parisian magazine Le Petit Journal organized what is considered to be the world's first motoring competition from Paris to Rouen.^[1] Sporting events were a tried and tested form of publicity stunt and circulation booster. Pierre Giffard, the paper's editor, promoted it as a Competition for Horseless Carriages (Concours des Voitures sans Chevaux) that were not dangerous, easy to drive, and cheap during the journey. Thus it blurred the distinctions between a reliability trial, a general event and a race. One hundred two competitors paid the 10 franc entrance fee.^[1]
Sixty-nine cars started the 50 km (31 mi) selection event that would show which entrants would be allowed to start the main event, the 127 km (79 mi) race from Paris to Rouen. The entrants ranged from serious manufacturers like Peugeot, Panhard or De Dion to amateur owners, and only 25 were selected for the main race.^[1]
The race started from Porte Maillot and went through the Bois de Boulogne. Count Jules-Albert de Dion was first into Rouen after 6 hours and 48 minutes at an average speed of 19 km/h. He finished 3’30” ahead of Georges Lemaître (Peugeot), followed by Doriot (Peugeot) at 16’30”, René Panhard (Panhard) at 33’30’’ and Émile Levassor (Panhard) at 55’30”. The official winners were Peugeot and Panhard as cars were judged on their speed, handling and safety characteristics, and De Dion's steam car needed a stoker which was forbidden.

A four wheeler won.


Then........

The Paris–Bordeaux–Paris race of June 1895 is sometimes considered the "first motor race".^[2] The first to arrive was Émile Levassor in his Panhard-Levassor 1205cc model. He completed the course (1,178 km or 732 miles) in 48 hours and 47 minutes, finishing nearly six hours before the runner-up. The official winner was Paul Koechlin in a Peugeot.^[3] Nine of twenty-two starters finished the course.

[DannyHotShot1]

It's very ugly and it doesen't look like it would handle either.

[tonyp]

I'll believe it when I see it next June. It would be cool if it works, but to me it has AVS Shadow written all over it.

[TSR]

Ron,

The Wiki info posted is not correct, and even the picture of the "car" is not the correct one! Get the much better informed book "The Star and the Laurel" by Beverly Ray Kimes, the true recognized authority in early car racing. There you will have the correct description of what happened in the Paris-Rouen race where the de Dion & Trepardoux tricycle won by one hour, not three minutes, over all the cars, and was disqualified not because of its tiller but because "it was missing a wheel" to be classified as a true motor car.

As far as the Ben Bowlby car, I would seriously await track testing before advancing opinions on its ability to corner. I am pretty sure that gentlemen who have been racing all their lives and know a thing or two more than all of you combined, such as Dan Gurney, Chip Ganassi, Don Panoz, and the Michelin Racing people would not have spent so much time and money on this project if they did not have solid evidence of its potential.

But I guess you guys know better, right?

Tony, remember that the first AVS Shadow was a loser, but it had four wheels... and if concocted today with all what was learned since, it could be a very different story. Indeed, who would have imagined only 30 years ago that a racing motorcycle could be fully manageable with over 250 HP on tap?

[Phil Hackett]

I have some books from GM about chassis dynamics and they state and prove that three-wheel vehicles are stable in cornering. Philippe is saying what they say in that WHERE the weight is and WHERE is is transfered by cornering forces is more important than having a wide track or a redundant wheel.

How important is the left front tire in NASCAR? I'd bet many teams would leave it off if they could have weight, weight placement, stagger and wheel alignment unrestricted. But then a three-wheeled car isn't "stock", is it?

[MSwiss]

I have some books from GM about chassis dynamics and they state and prove that three-wheel vehicles are stable in cornering.

I wonder why production of three-wheeled ATVs ceased in 1987.

If narrowing the front track isn't a detriment to stability, I wonder why they didn't narrow the front end of say, Can-Am cars in the '60s. Were there rules that the body had to maintain a consistent width?

I sure know a narrow track on slot cars isn't a winner.

[slotcarone]

Three-wheeled ATVs were very prone to accidents but I figure most were caused by people doing stupid things on them.

[Ron Hershman]

How important is the left front tire in NASCAR? I'd bet many teams would leave it off if they could have weight, weight placement, stagger, and wheel alignment unrestricted. But then a three-wheeled car isn't "stock" is it?

Well, until they got to a "road course". LOL.

More important than you may think when heading into a left hand turn... not so much coming off the turn where the right side tire becomes all-important along with the left rear.

[TSR]

Three-wheeled ATVs were very prone to accidents but I figure most were caused by people doing stupid things on them.

And extremely short wheelbase... meaning that most could not manage the quick changes in the polar moment of inertia.

While most three-wheelers have two fronts and one rear, some like the Reliant econocars of the early 1950s had a single front wheel (so as to avoid being taxed as a car) and were, according to Motorsport's Bill Boddy, extremely stable in hard cornering. Of course the current Morgan three-wheel "car" has been getting great reviews from all the car magazines, as a terrific handler. The Citroen DS19 could steer right or left at pretty fast speeds with one wheel removed from the back. It is just a matter of weight distribution. See HEREfor fun.

And HERE...

[MSwiss]

Of course the current Morgan three-wheel "car" has been getting great reviews from all the car magazines, as a terrific handler.

And with the two tires in the front.

Why not twotires in the back for better aerodynamics?

[TSR]

Mike,

Because the Morgan is a nostalgic replica of the one used in pre-war races at Brooklands as well as for inexpensive transportation for the impecunious Brits...

The new one looks like the old but is not cheap and is strictly for fun, and a rocket on wheels.

SEE HERE.