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The first Pro anglewinder race


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#51 dc-65x

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Posted 17 December 2023 - 08:33 PM

Thanks Dieter, that's really much appreciated.  :thank_you2:     I hope my pictures will help show the details of these great old cars that the grainy newsprint pictures hide and encourage others to build their own versions.


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#52 dc-65x

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Posted 19 December 2023 - 08:32 PM

My chassis is finished and I have to admit that it turned out to be one of my favorites.

 

first aw chassis (48).JPG

 

first aw chassis (50).JPG

 

To me, for a vintage Pro chassis, it has what Rodney calls, "The Look":

 

first aw chassis (53).JPG

 

A close look at some of the details often lost in the old newsprint photos:

 

first aw chassis (54).JPG

 

You can run you hands over the chassis and not feel any sharp edges. All of the ends of the piano wire, brass rods and tubes are chamfered smooth. They are not just chopped off with a Dremel cutoff wheel. That's a habit learned from my apprentice machinist days at the "deburr bench" that I can't shake.   :crazy:

 

first aw chassis (55).JPG

 

Next up is my "inspired by" Pete Zimmerman motor build.


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#53 stoo23

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Posted 19 December 2023 - 09:19 PM

Mmmm that looks "Luverly"  :)

As you say, it most definitely has "The Look" !!

 

That's a habit learned from my apprentice machinist days at the "deburr bench" that I can't shake.    :crazy:

  :) and a great thing too !!


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#54 Larry Horner

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Posted 19 December 2023 - 09:24 PM

That one truly is a looker Rick ... nice work!  :good:  I love it when you can make parts do double duty and one of my favorite details here is using the pan pivot rods to push the body pins up higher not to mention that the pins are themselves the down stops.



#55 Bill from NH

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Posted 19 December 2023 - 10:45 PM

Another family jewel Rick! Will this one get a Lola coupe body?


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#56 dc-65x

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Posted 20 December 2023 - 01:44 PM

Thanks Stewart.    :victory:

 

Those period Pro builders were clever folks for sure Larry. 

 

Bill........... :good: ............ :D


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#57 dc-65x

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Posted 23 December 2023 - 12:55 PM

For my motor I'm going with a setup like the Zimmerman motor that was used by the fastest qualifier of the race, Ray Gardner:

 

MCS 7-68 (5) - Copy.jpg

 

Below is an article on that motor from the very next issue of the MRJ newsletter:

 

MCJ V1N11 p7.jpg

 

MCJ V1N11 p7 - Copy.jpg

 

My chassis is setup for clockwise timed end bell drive. I found a very scary looking early "pre-tied" comm wires Lenz arm. 

 

I wish I would have taken a before restoration picture of the sad looking thing. It looked like a hand grenade waiting to explode.   :shok:

 

I checked it with an ohm meter and it read .2 to .3 ohms so I cut the comm and tested it in a cobbled up setup. It sounded great and ran smooth so I finished restoring it as best as I could:

 

zimmerman motor (7).JPG

 

zimmerman motor (6).JPG

 

As I remember from PdL's book, it was shortly after this race that Cukras hooked up with Mura and the comms were tied along with other improvements to help the motors last. 

 

Anyway I'll give this arm a try. It doesn't need to run and Endruo.........thank goodness!    :laugh2:


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#58 dc-65x

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Posted 27 December 2023 - 04:37 PM

With the armature ready to go I gathered up all the other parts into my build box:

 

lenz.JPG

 

First order of business is to replace the 1968 Mabuchi can's crappy so called ball bearing with the Champion oilite bearing that Zimmerman used:

 

zimmerman motor (5).JPG

 

Getting that aluminum bearing housing out of the Mabuchi can has always been problematic for me. To remove it, I've tried cutting, pounding and grinding with a variety of Dremel stones. I eventually get them out but it's never been easy........until now.

 

I use an end mill in my milling machine to cut away the crimped end of the bearing housing a few thousandths at a time until it just falls out......easy peasy:

 

zimmerman motor (1).JPG

 

I also removed the 4 little tabs in the can to make room for the big Versatec magnets:

 

zimmerman motor (2).JPG

 

The Champion bearing is soldered from the inside..........

 

zimmerman motor (16).JPG

 

.........and a nice bead of solder flows around the outside of the bearing:

 

zimmerman motor (15).JPG


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#59 dc-65x

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Posted 28 December 2023 - 04:49 PM

Next up is getting magnets in the can. I'm going with new old stock (NOS) Mura semi-can shim, Versatec magnets and Certus magnet centering shims:

 

zimmerman motor (17).JPG

 

The magnets got a good zap........

 

zimmerman motor (20).JPG

 

...........and the came up pretty high on the gauss meter:

 

zimmerman motor (18).JPG

 

The magnets are too small for the can and it's the shim's job to center them and hold them in place. Getting this accomplished has been problematic for me short of gluing them in place:

 

zimmerman motor (24).JPG

 

The problem is getting the little tabs (red arrows) bent around the edges of the magnets to lock them in place while they are in correctly aligned.

 

zimmerman motor (27).JPG

 

I've finally figured out an easy and effective way to do this. There are probably other ways but the one I'm going to share sure worked out great for me.

 

I used 2 Mura A-cans, an armature slug and loosely assembled the magnets and shims into the semi-can:

 

zimmerman motor (23).JPG

 

Then slide motor cans over each end of the magnets and shim.........

 

zimmerman motor (22).JPG

 

..........but leave access to the little tabs open to bend them tightly against the magnets with a flat blade screwdriver:

 

zimmerman motor (21).JPG

 

Look how nice and tight the tabs are formed around the magnets. All that's left is to do is add the usual U-shaped magnet spring clips:

 

zimmerman motor (26).JPG


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#60 olescratch

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Posted 29 December 2023 - 03:30 AM

  How can the U shaped spring-clip get past the bent tabs?  I don't see where there's any use for them.


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#61 dc-65x

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Posted 29 December 2023 - 12:15 PM

Hi John,

 

The U-shaped wire spring clip goes between and against the bent tabs to further reinforce their pressure against the magnets. I've seen motors with and without them. I figure they can't hurt so I use them.


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#62 dc-65x

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Posted 01 January 2024 - 12:48 PM

The NOS Mura first gen "unmeltable" endbell is attached to the can with four 0-80 panhead stainless steel machine screws:

 

zimmerman motor (13).JPG

 

The endbell is tapped for 2-56 stainless steel fasteners for its "brush gear":

 

zimmerman motor (10).JPG

 

At the back are the brush hoods and hex brush holders soldered together.

 

The early Mura's used Mabuchi style flat top brush hoods (front-left) and soon switched to the "pent-roof" style (front-right):

 

zimmerman motor (11).JPG

 

Endbell ready to go:

 

zimmerman motor (12).JPG

 

zimmerman motor (14).JPG

 

Time to put all the pieces together.


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#63 Bill from NH

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Posted 01 January 2024 - 03:20 PM

Rick, are these brush holders for 36D or 16D brushes?


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#64 dc-65x

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Posted 01 January 2024 - 03:28 PM

Hi Bill,

 

They are for 16D brushes:

 

zimmerman motor (25).JPG


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#65 dc-65x

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Posted 04 January 2024 - 12:13 PM

The motor is finished. Draws about .9 amps at 3 volts and doesn't overheat.

 

zimmerman motor finished. (4).JPG

 

zimmerman motor finished. (3).JPG

 

zimmerman motor finished. (2).JPG

 

Next I need to get the wheels and tires going:

 

Steube first AW wheels-tires (1).JPG

 

 


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#66 stoo23

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Posted 04 January 2024 - 12:34 PM

That's a VERY Tidy looking Motor !!!  :)


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#67 dc-65x

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Posted 05 January 2024 - 05:30 PM

Thanks Stewart

 

Here's an Alpha "humongous" donut glued to a small (by todays standards) vintage rim. How to find out where to trim off the excess tire?

 

Steube first AW wheels-tires (5).JPG

 

I'm using my little hobby lathe with an Xacto knife mounted in a boring bar tool holder. Measure the length of the brass spacer (.500") butted up against the wheel. Line up the blade with the end of the spacer and dial the lathe cross slide that .500" plus any extra, in this case .075" and cut:

 

Steube first AW wheels-tires (6).JPG

 

The same principle applies to the other side of the wheel:

 

Steube first AW wheels-tires (4).JPG

 

Then using my "olden times" tire machine the OD is cut:

 

Steube first AW wheels-tires (3).JPG

 

Ready for grinding:

 

Steube first AW wheels-tires (7).JPG

 

Here the fronts are finished and the rears need to be finish ground after they "rest" for a bit:

 

Steube first AW wheels-tires (8).JPG


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#68 Jay Guard

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Posted 05 January 2024 - 07:01 PM

Hey Rick:

I love the "spacer trick", Thanks for that, but I have two questions...

 

1. Did you have to use some kind of shims to mount the x-axto blades in the boring bar holder?

 

2. Did you consider somehow using the Sherline lathe to also cut the O.D.?  Would love to hear your thoughts on a set-up for that.


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#69 dc-65x

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Posted 05 January 2024 - 08:20 PM

Hi Jay, I'm glad you found it useful.

 

I have always thought I'd need some dedicated tool holder for Xacto blades. Then one day I just stuffed a knife in a boring bar holder and it works just fine:

 

FSCN3995.JPG

 

I use my old tire trimmer for the OD instead of the lathe because I'm lazy and it's all set up ready to go.

 

I'm going to use my lathe next time. I will use a smaller 3/8" boring bar holder rotated 90 degrees from the side trimming setup and fit a smaller No.11 blade knife in it. 


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#70 Jay Guard

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Posted 06 January 2024 - 12:22 AM

Rick:  Great info, from the angle of the picture I couldn't see the X-Acto knife body. Thanks for the clarification and inspiration. :)


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#71 dc-65x

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Posted 10 January 2024 - 08:35 PM

Here is something else Jay that I've found helpful. Maybe it is nothing new but it is to me and has made installing multiple lead wires easier in the Cox guide.

 

I hope I'm not being "Captain Obvious".............here goes.   :unknw:

 

I've been tightly twisting multiple lead wires together to get them to go through the hole in the guide. But then the tightly twisted wires resist inserting the fragile little copper retaining clip into the guide.

 

By only twisting the very end of the wires together and then soldering them makes it easy to insert the wires through the hole in the guide. The rest of the wires remain untwisted making it much easier to get that little retaining clip installed:

 

Steube first AW (1).JPG

 

With that, here's the finished roller:

 

Steube first AW (7).JPG

 

Steube first AW (8).JPG

 

Steube first AW (4).JPG

 

The wheel inserts are Russkit with "mystery" resin cast knock offs added:

 

Steube first AW (5).JPG

 

Steube first AW (6).JPG

 

I also added pan springs like Mike used:

 

Steube first AW (10).JPG

 

My "inspired by" tribute to Mike Steube's first Pro race winning angle winder.........."Look at that funny car, the motor is crooked. That will never work!"    :crazy:

 

Steube first AW (9).JPG

 

I can't put it off any longer.....the body is next.


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#72 Martin

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Posted 11 January 2024 - 12:25 PM

Nice trick with the soldered wires Rick, do you trim off the soldered part of the wires once inserted or just fold it back? 

I am thinking you would cut it off so the braid lays flat?

 

Painting weather is coming. :sun_bespectacled:  :)


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#73 dc-65x

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Posted 11 January 2024 - 12:38 PM

Hi Martin,

 

This time I trimmed the wires off flush with the bottom of the guide. I have also cut off the soldered wires and "combed" the remaining wires out flat under the braid. Can't make up my mind.  


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#74 Pablo

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Posted 11 January 2024 - 12:58 PM

It can't get any more perfect than this.  :heart:  :heart:  :heart:  :heart:  :heart:  :heart:


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#75 Paul Menkens

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Posted 12 January 2024 - 08:36 PM

"Look at that funny car, the motor is crooked. That will never work!" I love how whenever my nonslot friends see a car the 1st thing out of their mouths is "that's a stupid way to mount a motor, that'll never work and it'll wear out the gear"!







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