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Post-Sano race talk & suggestions


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#51 Noose

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 07:07 AM

Terry Doooooood (as Sano Dave would say)...

Man, I had my best racing with and against you! Don't let those that weren't there drag ya down. When they do show you can open that can of whoop *** driving on them!

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.





#52 Larry Mattingly

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 08:01 AM

Not sure I understand... :unsure:

After rechecking the thread the only one commenting about Terry was Rob... ;)

And, Rob was in the race... :)

Why the finger pointing at others who made no comment about the move-up time factor?

LM

#53 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 08:21 AM

All of this constant bitching and moaning on here over the last few months in regards to the paint jobs, qualifying, car counts, motor building, favoritism, spec tires, race rotation, offset chassis, etc., etc., has got me totally fed up with Retro racing. At this point, I have no desire to work on getting my stuff ready for the next race and I could really care less if I do.

I agree, Terry, however your one hell of a racer and friend, please don't the keyboard racers get to you. Hey, when you don't let them get to you, it makes them even more upset. ;)

BTW he was super fast in every class, not just JK Spec!

#54 Larry Mattingly

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 08:57 AM

Please don't use a 'broad brush' to label people...

The vast majority of people who post, make suggestions and comment about the various issues involving retro racing are NOT 'keyboard racers'... Most are racers, and many travel long distances to do so...

Playing with toy cars is no different than any other form of racing. Not everyone is happy with the rules and the way things are being done. Ask NASCAR's Brian France.

Those in power make the rules. It truly is their sandbox to do with as they please.

But, that doesn't mean that people can not express their opinions regarding the decisions that were made. I think it is called freedom of speech.

When you accept a leadership position, promote a race, manufacture parts, or just attend a race, being able to accept criticism is part of the deal.

Change cannot be enacted without public input. That is the way things are done in this country.

I don't believe in 'Good Old Boys' mentality.

If I have something to say, I'm going to say it, within the guidelines of the board.

If you don't like it... don't read it.

LM

#55 Richie

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 09:21 AM

I think the most important thing to be focusing on is how each event can attract more racers...

Unfortunately for me the most frustrating thing of seeing these threads is me turning into a keyboard racer, because every race something comes up and I'm not able to attend. I've got like five Can-Am and three F1 cars built, as I have been building new cars for each event that I was "planning"!!!! Sorry off topic just had to vent finally!

Back to topic, as an outsider I think the Sano setup looked good. I've only ever qualified once for a race, but I really liked the format at the SERRA race. Top two go to main, everyone else is seeded... with that being said, I do see the top qualifiers going directly to a "Semi" would be beneficial, and have everyone in the main at least already through one race, so the best cars and drivers will be in the main!

Regardless, I think the mains did feature the best racers this past Sano as in all previous. My only thought is the cream will always rise to the top!!!
Obsessed is the word the lazy use to describe the dedicated

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#56 Pappy

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 11:01 AM

When I started this thread I had no idea it would go this far and people would get mad. I just thought it was strange that the GT Coupe class had the most entries when most IRRA series don't even run it and JK Spec class had the second most and I think the Ohio Valley series is the only one to run it. We run both here in Ohio Valley. Maybe the board should re-define the tier 1 and the tier 2 classes. :laugh2: ;)

I really wish I could have been there. I was at the first Sano and it was the most fun I've ever had a slot car race. I love the flat track. I missed it last year due to a slight heart problem and I missed it this year because I just couldn't afford to go.

Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
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#57 DirtyHairy

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 11:19 AM

When I started this thread I had no idea it would go this far and people would get mad.

It always does and always will!!!!! People take it tooooooo seriously and take things personally... but that's just a "keyboard racer" perspective...

I think the Tiers are right (I know, you're surprised)... but I think, in that big of a race, everyone brought the whole truckload of cars, and JK Spec and Coupe are good classes that people like (obviously) because of the limitations on the motor...

Just my thoughts on the subject...
Justin Kirkendall
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#58 MSwiss

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 11:43 AM

I was at the first Sano and it was the most fun I've ever had a slot car race. I love the flat track.

They're even more fun with Howie there the last two years. He's great to have around even when he's in full Howiewood mode.

The flat track is lots of fun but unfortunately the complexity of it sends some people off to practice and race on the King where there is virtually no home track advantage.

Some people come race for fun and others want to think they have a chance to win. That was why the 1990 Wing Nats on the Purple Mile was so lowly attended compared to the King track races the previous five years.

To each his own. Guys should try to get whatever out of slots they need to make themselves happy.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

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#59 DirtyHairy

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 11:55 AM

To each his own. Guys should try to get whatever out of slots they need to make themselves happy.

This is the best thing I've heard on here in a while... Makes sense...
Justin Kirkendall
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#60 Hworth08

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 12:25 PM

Not intending to add to the comments about the length of time to change a Falcon motor but are the Falcons only lasting ONE race now, to the point a person doesn't trust them for two races?
Don Hollingsworth

#61 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 12:26 PM

They're even more fun with Howie there the last two years.
He's great to have around even when he's in full Howiewood mode.

LOL, I can agree with that. I was going to try and get an autograph but the line was to long. :laugh2:

#62 Noose

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 12:34 PM

Not intending to add to the comments about the length of time to change a Falcon motor but are the Falcons only lasting ONE race now, to the point a person doesn't trust them for two races?

No, at the SANO they lasted quite well. Ron VW ran four races moving up on the one motor. Some changed them thinking a fresh motor might be better but it wasn't usually the case. I ran a F7 in my Flat Track F1 car that already had two races on it and I added two more there. I tried it Wednesday when I picked up my stuff from Jay Kisling and it was still fine.

Mike's power was perfect for both motors - 13 v.

I had the only motor that blew up and it did it within 80 laps. We took it apart as I noticed something weird about it and discovered it was just plain put together wrong, causing the comm to blow.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#63 kvanpelt

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 01:21 PM

I had every intention of attending the Sano this year, and was waffling up to the last minute to do so. The economy is most definiteley my only excuse. Being self employed for 32 of my soon-to-be 53 years, I have endured some ups and downs, but this year has been by far the worst that I have experienced. I can only look forward to next year's race and hope that things will turn around with the economy.

I had a really gracious offer from a really great guy to front my racing expenses for the weekend until things get better, but seeing the sacrifices that my family has been making to get through this, I couldn't accept his generosity. I am most grateful for that offer, and will remember it always as it meant a lot to me.

I consider myself a racer and look at every race from the track layout to the format of the event, as a challenge to over come. Competing against others trying to do the same is what drives me to be MY best. To me that IS racing!

The only thing that I liked better about last year was the crowning of the
SANO DUDE and think that was missing this year. The king of the hill! This year we had five of them.

Terry, I hope you reconsider! We will all miss racing with a great guy like you!

#64 kgalasso

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 02:52 PM

I was at the Sano this year and last. Raced in both. I had a great time at both.

This year there was more time to talk and hang out with racers from all over. I love racing slot cars. If I could figure a way to do it and support a family of 5 I would do it in a heartbeat.

It's all about the racing, friendships, and time away from the daily grind. Thanks to all who helped me with my cars and for a great time at the Sano.
Kirk Galasso

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#65 Terry

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 03:24 PM

Not intending to add to the comments about the length of time to change a Falcon motor but are the Falcons only lasting ONE race now, to the point a person doesn't trust them for two races?


The only reason that I changed motors was because I had a big crash in the semi breaking my guide flag. After replacing the guide and getting back on track, the motor was noticeably slower by about 2 tenths of a second. I was lucky just to make the move up.

The 3 motors that I had were about the same performance wise, (I wasn't that excited about any of them). Alot of guys had more motor than me on the straight but when I got to the back side of the track, my car just really worked well.
Terry Watson

#66 Steve Deiters

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 04:18 PM

'.....my car just worked well."

You're too modest. Let's give credit where credit is due. I'm going to call it good driving!!

#67 MSwiss

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 04:40 PM

QUOTE (MSwiss @ Oct 23 2009, 11:43 PM)
They're even more fun with Howie there the last two years.
He's great to have around even when he's in full Howiewood mode.

LOL, I can agree with that. I was going to try and get an autograph but the line was to long. :laugh2:

In a related story, Howie will selling one of his Sano III capes on E-Bay. :)

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

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#68 Mopar Rob

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 04:48 PM

Rob - I don't think it took me 30-45 minutes like you say but if it did... WHATEVER!!! I guess that someone should have said something then if it was such an issue.

All of this constant bitching and moaning on here over the last few months in regards to the paint jobs, qualifying, car counts, motor building, favoritism, spec tires, race rotation, offset chassis, etc., etc., has got me totally fed up with Retro racing. At this point, I have no desire to work on getting my stuff ready for the next race and I could really care less if I do.



Terry,

I agree. No way it was 45 minutes or even 30.


Don't let the complainers get to you.
Most guys in Retro are positive, "the glass is half full" kind of guys. I wouldn't pay much attention to the "the glass is half empty" crowd, especially the ones who weren't at the race or hardly race at all.

All that matters is that you had a good time. And I would say when you were turning 4.7s in the JK Spec Semi, you were.



Terry:

I didn't use your name in my post so don't know why you needed to come forward? FYI, I wasn't the only one grumbling at the drivers station about the wait. Whatever the actual length of time it seemed like an eternity at Midnight.


Mike:

I liked the format and uderstand why Friday ended so late. People were offering sugestions of how to make it go faster. I offered one. If you don't see it as an issue or ever becoming an issue than fine. I guess I won't offer any more?



Frankly, I was having fun Retro racing and had fun at the Sano but it all seemed to end here this last week.

BTW:

I don't need to race either, I have other hobbies ;)
Rob Hanson

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Rob was right!


#69 MSwiss

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 05:05 PM

Rob,
Putting the move-ups on the clock is a good idea.
I intended to put a time limit on, but the previous 17 move-ups by Ron Van Wagnen and whomever else moved up
with him went very quickly.
Terry was the first to decide to change motors.
When a few of the main racers started to wonder why we hadn't started, I asked Terry to hustle
it up which he did.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#70 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 11:17 PM

Since many have been comparing the Sano format to my R4 format I thought I would add my .02. When the "continuous motion whatever" format was announced I thought "Great Idea". After I gave it some thought I still thought it was a great idea but also saw many ways that it could really cause time issues. Near perfect execution along with serious cooperation of the racers would be needed so as not to get things really backed up. Sounds to me like they, for the most part, pulled it off. The first time any new idea is put to the test there is bound to be some tweaking needed. The second try should be better than the first. The only thing I don't like about the format, but would be hard to change, is the seeded directly into the A Main aspect. Didn't like it 35 years ago and still don't. But sometimes there is no choice if you qualify.

I am one of the minority here (at least it seems like that) that like qualifying. I think it can add a little "spice" to the event. The problem is that it can also lengthen an already long day. When I posted that we would qualify for the Can-Am race at the last R4 the overwelming response was "NO". Well, I may promote the race but the event is for the racers. So I dropped qualifying and used the 'A-Main" format that we had used successfully in the early '90s. The fast guys still made the "A" main. If you were randomly seeded into a slow main you still had a shot at the "A". And no one can deny that the "A" mains were some great racing. Considering the number of entries we finished in excellent time. And most seemed to like it.

Comparing the Sano format and the R4 format is like "potato" or "potatoe". They both work. They both accomplish the same goal. They both pit the fast guys together in an "A" main for some very exciting racing.

Like Ron H has already posted I have decided that since "it ain't broke I ain't going to fix it" so we will use the same format that we used at the R4/2 Can-Am for all three classes at the R4/3. NOOSE, for the record, the reason we ran the F1 main after GTC was to let those who made the F1 A Main time to "freshen up" their cars without adding extra time to the program. I would do it again under the same circumstances. But, like Mister Obvious Ron Hershman pointed out, that won't be an issue next year. :D
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#71 Larry Mattingly

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 07:11 AM

Obviously, any format 'works' to some extent...

However, the question is, how would the SANO move-up style format fare from a time perspective IF it drew a large number of entries?

LM

#72 Bernie

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 12:14 PM

Obviously, any format 'works' to some extent...

However, the question is, how would the SANO move-up style format fare from a time perspective IF it drew a large number of entries?

LM


After a few weeks to digest my first experience of Da Sano and reading all the previous posts I am will add my thoughts about the event. My grandson Ezra and I started racing Retro @ Chicagoland in February of this year. We both had a blast at Da Sano! I really liked the qualifing and move up format as it gives you more track time if you are lucky enough to make a move up. We did not run the CanAm on Sunday becuase of Monday being a school day and we were kind of raced out anyway. After reading Mike's ideas for next year, I like the idea of Thursday on the Flat Track and a more relaxed schedule for the rest of the weekend. I was there Wednesday testing anyway so it would work out well for us. I am sure we will run all the events next year anyway because I plan to have enough equipment by then to do so with minimal changing back and forth.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone that helped us out. Mike Swiss for giving us a great place to race, Ray Price who builds our cars and is ALWAYS there to help us out ( couldn't do it with out you man!), Terry Watson for the tuning tips and encouragement, Bill Fulmer for loaning Ezra an F1 car so he could race Sunday, Cheater for the good conversation during "smoke breaks", Noose for not busting my b--ls when I failed tech the first time through, and all the other new friends we made over the weekend. It was a great experience and I am already planning for next year and the R4 in 2010. After 30 years of racing Karts & SCCA I am really glad that I can still get my racing fix with slot cars and that my grandson, Ezra enjoys it enough to share it with me. To me, seeing him progress the way he has and the quality time we can spend togehter is priceless. Thanks
Bernie Schatz

#73 Bernie

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 12:59 PM

There was a bit of a "dust up" at the start of the F1 A Main on Sunday. I thought some of the comments made were a bit out of line but I will not go into them now. What is done is done. I think there is a simple solution to problems like this. The top 4 that are seaded in the A Main have to sit for up to 2 hours depending on how many entries. The cars sit as well and get stone cold. I think if we are going to stay with this format which I like, there should be a 1 minute warmup for ALL A Main races. This would add no more than 6-10 minutes total to the entire weekend. Allowing a 1 minute warmup would hopefully end some of the first corner problems that seem to crop up now and then and give everyone a chance to settle in. I think this would result in cleaner racing and less problems. It would have to be 1 minute only and then line them up. No work outside of the 1 minute warmup period which would be fair for everyone. If time is an issue the 1 minute warmup could even be done between the last Semi and the A Main. Just a thought.
Bernie Schatz

#74 Pappy

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 01:45 PM

Damn! Cheater, I wish you'd tell me when you are going to change my titles. I saw the title of this thread and then I saw I was the one who started the thread and I thought I was going nuts. Then I thought maybe I started it a couple of years ago and just forgot. :laugh2: ;)

Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
It's the same when you are stupid.

 


#75 MSwiss

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 04:26 PM

I was actually the the one who did it because your title
no longer covered the full scope of what the thread morphed into.
I mentioned what I was doing here

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516






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