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#76 dc-65x

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 07:16 PM

Thanks Bill :i-m_so_happy:

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#77 Victor Poulin

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 07:55 PM

Rick
What did you use to clean that can up so nice?
I cant believe how it cleaned up.
Alright, who cut the cheese?

#78 havlicek

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 08:12 PM

10-4 on the bondo job Rick :) ...but well worth it. Those Champ cans are super cool to me as I never saw them when I was younger...only the Mura stuff. The Champion arms are quality too, but I have no idea about what the deal is with the com. I know some people will epoxy fibre washers to the end of the older Mabuchi coms to beef them up, but yours isn't that or the kind of actual com capping I've seen since it has the segment grooves in the "cap". I can't tell by the com tabs what it is since they're kinda buried, but it doesn't look like the period coms from Champion I have (which seem to be rebranded). BTW...You have some collection of Blue Dots going over there :shok: :blink: :wub:

-john
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#79 Champion 507

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 08:43 PM

Rick,

Being a Champion fan, I remember the first Kirkwoods (used in their 507's) had an extended black area beyond the copper segments...more so than the later ones we're used to seeing. Maybe the guy who wound this grabbed an early comm from his parts box or had a NOS one still in the package and decided to use it??? Only guessing.

1.jpg

From PdL's Champion article. It looks as if the arm in the package on the right has the extended black part of the comm beyond the end of the segments. I have a NOS Champion Kirkwood in the package. I'll try to find it and post a pic of it. It has the extended black part.
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#80 havlicek

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 09:56 PM

Philippe surely has the definitive answer Doug. It's just a matter of him seeing this conversation and we'll know for sure!

-john
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#81 dc-65x

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 10:12 PM

Hi Victor,

On the can I used a flat file, 320 grit sand paper and finished it off inside and out with a wire wheel in my Dremel. I think what I really used was motivation. I spent a couple of hours saving that can. For me they are rare and I have lots of TonyP cars that used them I want to build :) .

Hey John, the Blue Dots and CEE cans were worth the price of admission. ;)

Thanks for the help with the comm Doug, it's a weird one :unsure:

Rick Thigpen
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#82 Prof. Fate

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 03:12 PM

Hi

When these first came out, not trusting, we often fiber capped and exposied as a version of "trust but verify".

Ironically, about 15 years ago when the current crop of very scale 1/32s came out and got popular locally, I did the cap on the trash coms of the Ninco NC1 I was working on for the same reason. Cannot true a com you cannot trust.

The tech level of the locas was so low that they thought the wrapper kept one from opening the motor. That it could not be worked on in any case.

So, when the Can drive NC1 showed up in my kids Scaley car as endbell drive......they said I was cheating!

They required the NC1s and the Scaley Suburu was my kid's favorite! Sheesh.

Fate
Sorry for the digression
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#83 Victor Poulin

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 03:43 PM

Gee guys
After reading this thred Im going to have to go through stuff to see what I have. lol


Rick,
Man, I still cant beleive how good that can looks from the before and afters !!!! I know its alot of work, but from the pics Id say it was worth the effort.

Vic
Alright, who cut the cheese?

#84 TSR

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 03:55 PM

It's like fishing the Antikythera all over again... :laugh2:

antikythera.jpg

Philippe de Lespinay


#85 dc-65x

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 05:24 PM

It's been a long slog to extract beauty from the beasts. I've decided to put the above chassis in a baggie with the rest of the keepers for now. Here one more thing from that car:

Posted Image

It's the first one I've seen in the flesh. I believe it's a Steube Jet flag with the shaped blade:

Posted Image

The last car is this Auto World 1/32 job. I swear I've seen an ad in one of the newsletters for this car. I remember thinking why put such nice wheels on such a pile. Maybe the 1/8" axle wheels were out of favor then but I can't find the ad to date it. It doesn't show up in any of my AW catalogs with these nice wheels:

Posted Image

Posted Image

So there you have it folks. After about 40 hours of work I separated almost 4 pounds of chaff...

Posted Image


... that stuffed a one gallon zip lock bag full...

Posted Image

... and saved over 2 1/2 pounds of wheat, err, goodies:

Posted Image

Thanks for sharing the journey with me. You guys kept me motivated to get it finished :) .

Onward...

Rick Thigpen
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#86 Mark H

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 06:42 PM

Treasure!!! :shok:

You make it look so easy, good job.
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#87 TSR

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 06:49 PM

Rick,
The McLaren is an M23 F1 (with the Cossie DFV) and the kit dates from 1976 in the Auto World catalog. This one is painted like the James Hunt car.

The "Steube" guide was of course made by the former SimCo company that folded and was taken over by Associated Electrics in Paramount. The name "Steube" was allowed by Mike for payments, over the objections of his dad. :)

Philippe de Lespinay


#88 Steve Deiters

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 07:16 PM

That is indeed an example of the much anticipated, but not beloved Steube guide with its ribbed design. It wasn't that it did or didn't work well when it was released by Associated. The problem was that the performance once it hit the tracks en masse was viewed as equal to the ubiquitous "Jet" flag, but the price was something like 50% more. They sold well for a couple of weeks till the distribution pipeline got filled and they died the death of obscurity of so many slot products that are now viewed as curiosities.

Just about the same time Associated came out with that two-piece motor can and rather anemic endbell. I can't remember if Mike S.'s name was linked to it of not, but its half-life was shorter than the ribbed guide. I don't know if there is a stash of those around or not, but I think a lot of the motor winder types on the blog would have a blast with them if someone found a cache of them.

#89 dc-65x

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 07:29 PM

Just about the same time Associated came out with that two-piece motor can and rather anemic endbell.

This one, Steve?

Posted Image

Posted Image

... I think a lot of the motor winder types on the blog would have a blast with them if someone found a cache of them

You got that right! :D

Philippe, 1976, check... Thanks!

Rick Thigpen
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#90 TSR

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 07:31 PM

Yes, they were called "Steube Can" and so were a line of tires, drop arms (with the holes), side pans (with 1/2 holes) etc. Lee Yurada, half of Associated with Roger Curtis, had paid Mike for the use of his name. So did Mura that produced a line of "Mike Steube" armatures and motors (nothing to do with his dad's Team Checkpoint motors) in 1969.

Considering the cost of a good surfboard, who can blame Mike? :)

Philippe de Lespinay


#91 Steve Deiters

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 07:42 PM

That be it. Assembling one of those things well in my view was beyond the skill set of most racers of the time, but might be doable now with all the resources for motor blueprinting jigs and fixtures that are around now. It just never took off. Put together correctly that may have been instant karma for motors for all I know. I don't think anyone ever really got them up and running. Maybe on the left coast? PdL?

I had forgotten about the Steube drop arm with full hole and the pans with half holes. They sold very, very well, but to be honest I think they just cannibalized the sale of the other Associated arms and pans.

About the same time Bob Emmott and Jerry Brady had a product line of arms and pans under the brand name of "BEE" (?) products. They sold well, but were hard to get for the brief time they were available. Also at the same time Nutley had a line of arms and pans. It was all good stuff, just not necessarily readily available. Lots of quality stuff from a variety of places. A chassis builder's delight.

#92 TSR

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 07:46 PM

Indeed. I have seen a few motors using the Associated two-piece can, but they were thrashed together, what a waste! The idea was to be able to use the can without any magnet shims, but without a lining jig fixture, good luck! Besides you needed to silver solder the two pieces with a torch, and at that time, who had one? :laugh2:

But it makes for a good laugh today... :)

Philippe de Lespinay


#93 dc-65x

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 08:02 PM

I got one to work in this project build:

Steube and Cukras at it Again

Posted Image

I don't know if it would go race distance but it was a fun motor to build. The epoxied-in magnets really beef up the two can halves. You can see that Associated brought out a version already spot-welded together in my earlier photo. The endbells are fragile and space the brush hoods to far apart IMHO. I'm sure it was a disaster in when it came out but it's something different to mess with today. So if someone has a cache of them, bring them on :D !

Rick Thigpen
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#94 Prof. Fate

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 12:44 PM

Hi,

Dark age monsters! I never saw them! When these came out I was doing Green cans and cobalts!

Was there any open tracks in the LA basin in '76? I didn't hear of any. There was one in Denver, and a couple here in Utah, but I didn't hear of anything in LA.

Sigh.

The internet makes it so much easier.

Rick, a digression here on the "Auto World". To his dying day, Jose held a grudge about these cars. The problem is that the motors they had were the factory rejects! Check the comms, it is a good idea to wrap and epoxy the comms as they often blew up when first powered. As a lot of the surviving 1/32 club racers knew about Jose's involvement with these things, they blamed him. He thought it made him look bad.

Fate
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#95 TSR

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 12:46 PM

When these came out I was doing Green cans and cobalts!

Uh, Rocky, the Green can came on the market almost six months after these Associated cans were history, and the cobalts, what, ten years later? :)

Philippe de Lespinay


#96 Alchemist

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 06:33 AM

Rick,

Many thanks for sharing! I'm learning so much! I missed out on learning all that you share as a youth in the late 60's, but so happy that I can gain the knowledge here on Slotblog! The joy of discovery - how exciting!

Ernie
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#97 idare2bdul

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 12:46 PM

1976 in the LA area would have seen me racing at Crash and Burn, Charley's Raceway, Canoga Raceway and Circle T, just in the San Fernando Valley. Rosecrans Raceway with the J&J track was in Compton and Monaco had a thriving program in Orange County. Then there was Bellflower Raceway and the Track at Hobby City. I may have missed somebody.

Hi,

Dark age monsters! I never saw them! When these came out I was doing Green cans and cobalts!

Was there any open tracks in the LA basin in '76? I didn't hear of any. There was one in Denver, and a couple here in Utah, but I didn't hear of anything in LA.

Sigh.

The internet makes it so much easier.

Rick, a digression here on the "Auto World". To his dying day, Jose held a grudge about these cars. The problem is that the motors they had were the factory rejects! Check the comms, it is a good idea to wrap and epoxy the comms as they often blew up when first powered. As a lot of the surviving 1/32 club racers knew about Jose's involvement with these things, they blamed him. He thought it made him look bad.

Fate


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#98 Prof. Fate

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 01:31 PM

Hi

But Mike, your racing didn't make the press!

My point about this motor is that I didn't see it in the intermountain west before I was doing C cans and P cans. Thus, I didn't say it didn't exist, only that it didn't make it to the tracks I was racing at.

If I see something new to me, isn't it fair to mention that it is NEW TO ME?

Same with the raceways. I was buying bits from Ron Granlee in the 79 on. Lots of good spring steel. And he asked me about it and why. Lamented to me that diecast kits were the bulk of his business and that racing had died. Perhaps he overstated, but I heard NOTHING about anything in LA.

now, to be fair, LA's area populaiton was bigger than the sum total of colorado. Perhaps he was surprised that with a much smaller market, we had active programs all up and down the front range, then a population under 2 million.

Fate
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