48 replies to this topic

[dc-65x]

Sorry to hijack your thread, DC...

This isn't hijacking, John... this is FUN! Thanks to everyone for all the great info and interesting comments .

Here's another period magazine article on the Harvey. Check out the racing action on the cover. OH MY GAWD! That's the time I remember back at Riverside International Raceway. There's Ken Miles (98) and Dave McDonald (198 I think) in Cobras about to disappear from the Corvettes. High-horsepower cars with no aerodynamic down force sliding around on 6" of tire contact patch. I LOVE IT!... but I digress. :



Hmmmmmmmm... I wonder if that's McDonald in the #6 Vette and Bill Krause in the #198 Cobra ... but I digress again !

[Larry Mattingly]

Larry, as far as four-wheel steering, my memory is a blank but if there was such a thing, it probably was not voluntary...

Did some research...

According to Gabbard's Indy book, Thompson's '64 cars featured "four-wheel steering, of sorts..." Apparently Smokey Yunick had tried the same concept on a pair of roadster entries a few years earlier.

Another interesting Thompson fact... Ford gave him five of their hard-to-obtain DOHC V-8 engines in '64, while turning down engine requests from A. J. Foyt and Parnelli Jones. Thompson only managed to qualify two of the five for the race.

LM

[TSR]

According to Gabbard's Indy book, Thompson's '64 cars featured "four-wheel steering, of sorts..." Apparently Smokey Yunick had tried the same concept on a pair of roadster entries a few years earlier.

Larry, while this is possible (a verification with the Nostalgia Forum will almost certainly tell it like it was), I would be VERY careful with the Alex Gabbard book. While it has great pictures, the story told is so full of errors in virtually every chapter, that most information had been derided by the true experts. So please take it with a grain of salt...

I do not have the time right now but if you do, begin reading THIS and let us know...

[don.siegel]

Hate to throw a monkey wrench in the works, but since Rick likes his threads hijacked here you go!

Actually, I remembered that I had a magazine with the Harvey in color on the cover, and I did, but it was the 1962 car - so here it is anyway. A future project Rick? Did anybody every make a slot car of this one?

Don

[Larry Mattingly]

P,

Thanks for the thread...

I have waded through about half of it, and came up with the following:

One poster stated an Indianapolis newspaper article quoted Colin Chapman as having examined the '64 Thompson cars and was shocked to find that the right rear wheel steered... three-wheel steering?

Another post said the 'three-wheel steering' was verified in the '64 Floyd Clymer yearbook. I have the book, but it is in storage in my attic... LOL.

Another post said the 1967 Thompson car featured full four-wheel steering. That car, as I remember, did not qualify for the race.

Good stuff...

BTW... Others have told me to not take Gabbard at face value.

LM

[TSR]

Larry, my pleasure.

I am not sure that this "four-wheel steering" really existed, but there is some evidence that it could have. All I can tell you for sure is that neither the 1962, 1963 or 1964 cars that qualified had it.

The 1962 cars were truly great cars. They, as the Cooper-Climax, then Cooper-Aston Martin did, simply lacked straightaway speed. The 1963 cars with the Chevies were faster but not enough. The 1964 cars were plenty fast but lacked development time. They could have been winning machines with a bit more time.

Actually, I remembered that I had a magazine with the Harvey in color on the cover, and I did, but it was the 1962 car - so here it is anyway. A future project Rick? Did anybody every make a slot car of this one?

Don,

The only slot car bodies I have seen of the 1962 cars were beautiful fiberglass 1/32 scale job that I got from the Bill Sippel archive in 1996. It looks like none of the other body companies showed any interest in this very interesting car, and it is really too bad.

[endbelldrive]

Rick,
Love that Corvette vs. Cobra cover! It's got me inspired...again!

Don,
There is a picture of a Dick Dobson 1/32 fiberglass shelled version of that 1962 Mickey Thompson Indy car in that great old Car Model article from 1964: VSRN Online - The Midwest's Fastest, Best and Sharpest (Maybe it's the same shell that Dokk is talking about? )

[TSR]

It's not Dobson's model, it is Pete Hagenbuch's. He still has it and recently sent me for the book, beautiful color pictures of it. You can see some others built by Gene Wallingford HERE . Probably the same body, all fiberglass.

[idare2bdul]

I liked the picture of Tony Nancy's 22 Jr. that was also on the cover with the 62 Indy car.

[gascarnut]

It's not Dobson's model, it is Pete Hagenbuch's. He still has it and recently sent me for the book, beautiful color pictures of it. You can see some others built by Gene Wallingford HERE . Probably the same body, all fiberglass.

Pete's car, but the body was by Dobson, at least according to that article.

[Gary Donahoe]

Mickey Thompson was certainly an innovator and the Harvey Aluminum/Allstate cars incorporated many ideas that were way ahead of their time. I know that Dan Gurney was very impressed with the handling of the early car that he drove for Mickey.

I was a big Dave McDonald fan after watching him drive the Cooper King Cobra and a Woods Brothers Galaxy at Riverside. It was one of the saddest days of my young life when my dad and I watched the horrible accident take place on the live closed circuit TV broadcast. No doubt that Dave was charging and the car was challenging to drive especially with a full load of fuel, perhaps there was a mechanical problem, we will never know the true cause for the crash. One can only imagine how it would have changed history had he made it through that turn.

It was a different world then. New ideas were happening fast and furious without time to properly sort them out. Indy cars were truly experimental vehicles and drivers were like test pilots, never really knowing what would happen next, but bravely squeezing the pedal down. Unfortunately in this case two drivers lost their lives and I'm sure it had a life long impact on Mickey and everyone involved with the team, not to mention the racing world in general. As evidenced by the long thread on the Autosport forum it is still much on people's minds forty-five years after the fact.

Regarding surviving cars I recall being at Danny Thompson's storage facility around 1990. Stored with tons of racing relics was at least one incomplete Harvey Aluminum Special. My memory is very foggy but the picture in my mind is that it was basically in the 1963 configuration. I recall it to be more of a collection of parts than a complete car.

A great read is the book "Challenger, Mickey Thompsons Own Story of His Life of Speed". It's hard to find but an interesting glimpse into Mickey's life.

[dc-65x]

Hi Gary,

Thank you for your insight. Dave McDonald was a master of car control for sure. I remember him drifting sideways all the way around Riverside's turn 6....spectacular..........AND making it the fastest way around ! It's also good to know that Dan Gurney liked the way the first Harvey's handled .

So, here's the last magazine article I have on them:









This is an article from the English magazine Model Maker. I found it an lots of other great articles at vsrnonline.com:





Those wheel and tire specs are what I'll be using next.............

Onward

[havlicek]

From when I was a kid to right now, this is still one of my favorite cars of all time Rick. The "head-on" shot from page 48 about says it all From a purely aesthetic standpoint, most Indy cars don't do much for me...but the Harvey is something else and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it!

-john

[Steve Deiters]

Great article from Road & Track on the Havey Aluminium cars. If anyone ever wanted to carve a body mold you couldn't have a better starting place than the line drawing in the article.

Reading it over I had a non-slot racing question. They noted that the brake discs and fly wheel were treated with "sprayed on copper-iron" by Schieffer-the high performance clutch people. Any of you aging hot rodders out there know why they would do this? Heat disipation? Friction modifier? Or? I had never seen this before and I was curious.

[dc-65x]

Hi Steve,

It turns out that the last picture in post #37 is from the English magazine Model Maker. OOPS! I found the first page to the article and put it into #37.

I don't know about the "sprayed on copper-iron" by Schieffer-the high performance clutch people. Hopefully someone can help us with that?

I love the Harvey too John. My ideas for how to build the two have been very "gaseous" but are starting to come together and solidify.....kind of like the formation of the planets.

[Rotorranch]

I know this thread is years old. But are the Allstate bodies available anywhere at this time?

That was my pick to win in 64.

Rotor

[dc-65x]

Jeff,

You might give Howmet TX a PM and see if he has any ideas.
 

Though I love the Harvey dearly, this is my current dream machine;





Repopped from an old GT Models (I think) All States Special, courtesy of John Secchi. Tragic but gorgeous, and a popular runner here back when it was new. I was going to keep it a secret until I'd built one up for Edo - I think it's his kinda thang. But as long as you chaps don't tell him... It's going to need a Dynamic frame with piano wire extensions, methinks, and a hot 26D.

[Rotorranch]

I tried to pm Howmet TX, but it seems he is not receiving pm's at this time.

Rotor

[dc-65x]

Jeff,

 

It looks like John stopped posting both here and on UK's SlotForum in 2013.

[don.siegel]

He's pretty active on Facebook...

Don

[Rotorranch]

I really want about 4 of them!

Rotor

[Rotorranch]

Anyone got his contact info???

[munter]

https://www.facebook...hn.dilworth.564

[Rotorranch]

https://www.facebook...hn.dilworth.564

Thank you.