48 replies to this topic

[Don Wedding]

Can someone post a picture of one of these cars built up.

[Biff]

Can someone post a picture of one of these cars built up.

I gave up! lol

[Jairus]

I got one of these coming. Hoping to do a build up and a nice modification thread eventually. (I keep watching the mail box... but nothing today.)

As for the 3 star ignorant comment. At least AMT is TRYING! John just hasn't asked the right persons..... YET! But he will and this is just the start as long as people remain POSITIVE!

Here is a link to a pic of the completed chassis. http://www.modelcars...showtopic=53489

[TSR]

Jairus,
That's good that they are trying. Could they not have asked around before making expensive tooling? The net result is that if people are dissatisfied by the first product, they may not come back for more if and when the product is made with better design and engineering.
Exactly what is going on with 1/32 scale slot car racing where there is a very small enthusiast market but where the 95% of buyers (the one that buy these sets for their kids) are constantly renewed because each new set is disappointed with their purchase and the racing set quickly ends in a closet.
If I may remind you, it is because of years and years and years of crappy cars that GM, Ford and Chrysler were overwhelmed by better foreign cars, and now while their product has greatly improved, they have a heck of a time regaining lost market shares.
The very same applies here. If one is to do something like this, do it RIGHT the first time, it does NOT cost more.

[Jairus]

If I give you the address, would you send one of your TSR cars to John Greczula with a simple note? If you can not be condescending, he and I would really be appreciative of the help I am sure.

BTW, if John had bothered to ask me, I would have pointed him your way in the first place.

[Justin A. Porter]

I wish these cars had been designed more in line with AT LEAST the H&R chassis. There is a fantastic opportunity to create a new clientele for 1/24th scale model slot cars through AMT's distribution network, and I fear it's been missed as the AMT car is not quite the product the Carrera RTR cars are, to say nothing of comparisons to the BRM or ScaleAuto cars.

[Biff]

What I like about it is, it's a kit, not a RTR. What I don't like about it is, they could of done a better job of it. I like "Kits"! That's one of the reasons I build RC planes and have built and raced 100s of RC cars in the last 20 years.

[TSR]

If I give you the address, would you send one of your TSR cars to John Greczula with a simple note? If you can not be condescending, he and I would really be appreciative of the help I am sure.

BTW, if John had bothered to ask me, I would have pointed him your way in the first place.

Jairus,
While I have no more personal financial interest in the TSR cars company, I would be very pleased to do so.
If you wish to get him in touch, I would give him the same advice as I provided to Monogram, which they unfortunately ignored in favor of a dreadful design. Hopefully some day, someone may listen, so that kids DO get better slot cars that actually STAY on the track?

[Ramcatlarry]

It is TRULY amazing that such a chassis design could be developed and funded that was so out of touch with the technical function of motive power. The chassis is a true shelf queen of bad design. An FCR or H&R roller would drive infinitely better....the only possible modification would be in flag relationship to the front bumper - IF you really desired to hide the flag at all.

[Jairus]

Soooo... I challenge you smart guys to buy one and with-out swapping out the chassis. Make this "sows ear" into a silk purse then! (Since we have so many bench racers here.)

As I said to John in my last correspondence, I am trying to remain neutral over this product. But the fact remains that any company making an product makes every attempt to reduce costs. In this case the chassis is used for both 1:32 scale and 1:24 scale with a variety of wheel base and track sizes in both. So as far as the motor mounts and body mounts. I figure those have to remain.

But trimming the nose of the chassis to give the guide better swing, finding a better motor, guide, gear, wheels and tires ARE free game!

So, that is the challenge dudes! Put your money and skills were your mouth is and show AMT how we do it here on SLOTBLOG!!!

[Noose]

This is an embarrassing product. Other than the body the rest is worse than stuff we had as kids. My Strombecker's woulD last longer than this will. What sham on the public.

[TSR]

Noose is right, but let's see if we can get this right in theory:
Some of the issues can only be resolved by modifying some of the injection molding tooling, some can be fixed by swapping parts, some cannot be fixed without new chassis tooling...

Using the same chassis for 1/32 scale cars limits the possibility to widen the rear-axle bracket to allow the mounting of FA or FK motors without that insane adapter, but it can be done, with minimal compromises.

I would go to straight stainless-steel axles (with chamfered ends) and a two-step wheel bore (with a tiny gas-escaping hole at its end), like on the TSR cars, that absolutely ensure a concentric fit and unlike those silly push-on wheels on Fly and Ninco cars, does not split the wheels when the trapped gas has nowhere to go.

Push-on gears are fine if using a step bore as again, proven on the TSR models, because if the bore is tuned correctly, the motor won't have enough torque to rotate the gear on its axle. Again, a question of sound engineering at no greater cost.

I would dump the flimsy metal chassis in favor of a wheelbase-adjustable injected plastic chassis made of glass-filled nylon (28% glass to nylon) WITH a heavy (1/16" thick) flat brass pan floating underneath, the 3-piece assembly affixed by a single bolt with a captive nut, the brass pan also holding plastic side body mounts that could use either non-visible adhesive body mounts glued inside the body sides, the body then removable by undoing two screws under the car.
The use of such a chassis would allow to do away with added axle bearings as the TSR cars have proven as their bearings can run hundreds of hours of use with no measurable wear, and take very little physical space in case of a preferable sidewinder motor installation.

The 2-piece guide is not necessary and a simple circular guide with spring-loaded return running on a "track" under the chassis and secured with a self-tapping nut would not only be much better but would allow the use of ribbon-style contacts and do away with flexible lead wires.

Last, a magnet traction option is easy to engineer in such a chassis, regardless if inline of sidewinder.

I can design and engineer that thing in minutes...

[Biff]

Soooo... I challenge you smart guys to buy one and with-out swapping out the chassis. Make this "sows ear" into a silk purse then! (Since we have so many bench racers here.)

As I said to John in my last correspondence, I am trying to remain neutral over this product. But the fact remains that any company making an product makes every attempt to reduce costs. In this case the chassis is used for both 1:32 scale and 1:24 scale with a variety of wheel base and track sizes in both. So as far as the motor mounts and body mounts. I figure those have to remain.

But trimming the nose of the chassis to give the guide better swing, finding a better motor, guide, gear, wheels and tires ARE free game!

So, that is the challenge dudes! Put your money and skills were your mouth is and show AMT how we do it here on SLOTBLOG!!!

I'm gonna use part of the chassis. I should be done after I set up my home track.

[Jairus]

UPDATE:

I was not suppose to take pictures and post them, so I didn't. (all a big secret you see) But... AMT sent me a few weeks ago, another chassis to test. This one with a proper set of gears and set-screw wheels. The slip on rubber tires were still there as was the motor but I am happy to report it ran around the track with no problem after I added the correct number of guide washers.

A real slot enthusiast could true up those rubber tires in a few minutes and it should do some fairly respectable laps. (I wonder of they changed the winding on the motor?)

The guide is new as well and protects the lead wires from getting cut off when it swings. But it's still two piece.
I sent them the car back with a few suggestions and sent along my modified version with a Pro-Slot motor, Parma guide and Pro-Track tires front and rear. THAT baby hauls!

That's about it. The new kits will probably hit the hobby shop this fall.

And they asked me if I thought there were any vintage AMT body kits from the past that were worth re-releasing.
I am not familiar with the AMT slot line up other than the Corvette and the Thunderbird. PdL mentioned a Mercedes in another thread. So... if you guys have any favorites, let me know and I will pass the word along.

Respectfully submitted,

Jairus

[Steve Deiters]

UPDATE:

I was not suppose to take pictures and post them, so I didn't. (all a big secret you see) But... AMT sent me a few weeks ago, another chassis to test. This one with a proper set of gears and set-screw wheels. The slip on rubber tires were still there as was the motor but I am happy to report it ran around the track with no problem after I added the correct number of guide washers.

A real slot enthusiast could true up those rubber tires in a few minutes and it should do some fairly respectable laps. (I wonder of they changed the winding on the motor?)

The guide is new as well and protects the lead wires from getting cut off when it swings. But it's still two piece.
I sent them the car back with a few suggestions and sent along my modified version with a Pro-Slot motor, Parma guide and Pro-Track tires front and rear. THAT baby hauls!

That's about it. The new kits will probably hit the hobby shop this fall.

And they asked me if I thought there were any vintage AMT body kits from the past that were worth re-releasing.
I am not familiar with the AMT slot line up other than the Corvette and the Thunderbird. PdL mentioned a Mercedes in another thread. So... if you guys have any favorites, let me know and I will pass the word along.

Respectfully submitted,

Jairus

My first slot car was an AMT Cobra and my buddy bought a Ford Mustang. For the day and for what they were the bodies were great. The chassis and that Mabuchi motor not so much so.....

[Lone Wolf]

J, Thanks for the effort. I do believe it could work if done correctly. Offer the chassis as a complete kit with no body. Also offer the body mounts,decals etc. as a separate items. They could even offer a hotter motor separate.These little items are money makers.Then offer the bodies as plain white and molded in color. The molded in color ones would bring the younger crowd and those who don't like to paint in. Plain white for the Hardcore builders. By offering an adjustable chassis and mounts separate a builder could use any AMT kit to build Stockers, Muscle cars etc.

Here are at least a couple bodies I would like to see.



And this too.

[Jairus]

Thank you, Joe, for the great pictures. I will indeed pass the information along to John.

[Mark H]

there making a new one... SWEET!

[Champion 507]

Jairus,

I have inquired a couple of times here on Slotblog about them also including FoMoCo and Mopar cars to their lineup.

Also, I think they made a Lola T70 roadster back in the day. A friend of mine had one.

[Jairus]

Thank you Doug. I will add the Lola to the list and suggest a line of racing cars next for both body kits and full chassis kits.

[Champion 507]

From an old magazine...

[sportblazer350]

i am glad to hear news of a new and updated, beter chassi sdesign. I woul add one or two suggestions regarding the bodies:
(1) add the interior!! a complete model kit vs an incomplete model kit.......
(2) i have built several slot cars from AMT promo cars and kits that come pre-decorated. This would make it faster and easier for all (novice and old pro) to assemble a track worthy slot car kit.

AMT makes/has made these, so why not use a pre-decorated model kit (and/or promo) with a good chassis to make a GREAT slot car kit, add the vintage era packaging, and what more could i ask for?? ok, i'll ask that AMT re-issue their line of stock cars and GT race cars as they origianlyy did in the '65-'66 slot car era. Add Cobras, Mustangs, Corvettes, Chappys, as pictured above examples: bring back the golden era of 1965-1966 slot car racing.

(3) why not re-issue the 1965 era brass pan chassis- it worked then, they still work well now??!!

and yes, no matter how the current issue chassis perfrom, i am stil happy that AMT is re-issuing slot car kits with retro packaging. my thanks to all who are trying to help AMT with these re-issues.

[racie35]

My votes for other bodies---olds tornado 66____66 galaxie---66/67 fairlane (promo body already available) any 60's impala and the ac cobra.
The cars are gonna be fine when raced against each other---newer chassis' blindingly fast are the last things people should compare a retro style release to.

[TuscoTodd]

I am still REALLY happy that AMT is releasing these kits, and I look forward to the next batch that is coming to market (hopefully this month).  On the body side of things, Like others, I would love to see a Cobra - in addition to this, it would be neat to see them offer a "series" of cars like:
Corvettes (one from each generation?)
Trans Am racing series (late '60's / early 70's Mustang, Camaro, Charger, etc)
Turn Pike cruiser series (60's vintage full size cars along the same lines as the Galaxy and Catalina kits)
'80's iron (Grand National, Hurst Olds, 5.0 Mustang, IROC Z, etc)
Muscle Car series (GTO Judge, Hemi Cuda, etc)
 
In regard to the chassis - it is definitely far from "stiff", but has proven easy to modify, so there is that "plus".  Some modifications that I would like to see are:
- eliminate the "motor adapter" (which would be a cost savings) - and go to a standard two screw affair similar to what a Parma Womp (and others) use.  It would also be nice if a 16D motor could be mounted without major chassis work as an option for the FK size motors (see the mods I had to do to the chassis for the 442 build I did in the other AMT posting)
- create a drawn / depressed tongue for the guide flag mount.  Currently the guide sits nowhere near deep enough in relation to the tire/wheel size/axle combination as supplied (resulting in needing to use a number of spacers or deal with de-slots).  I solved this on my latest build by soldering on a piece of 1/16 brass and then a Slick 7 guide to the bottom of that and still have a .010" washer between the guide and the tongue to get it deep enough. 
- Modify the tongue design to allow a greater range of angular movement - similar to the vintage AMT chassis, Parma Womp chassis, etc
- Consider moving away from the mild steel (most likely an SAE 1006/1008 dead soft, 5 temper product) to a half or full hard, low carbon steel - or better yet, switch to a mild HSLA (high strength low alloy) 50ksi (or higher) grade.  Either change would do wonders for adding some much needed stiffness to the chassis without adding weight or complexity (stamped in stiffening beads, etc) to the design.
- Consider switching to 1/8" axles - it would allow use of a full range of custom wheel/tire options ready available off the shelf - making servicing / maintaining / racing these chassis easier. (for those of us that run these on the track on a weekly basis. Would love to see the chassis improve to the point that it would be possible to develope a "box stock" class using them!)
- Consider a changing to a one piece guide flag using the standard 3/16" shank - this will for better stability and is a possible cost savings over a two piece unit?
 
- Consider offering a "Hop up" / "Track pack" / "Performance Plus" type kit or kits offering different levels of enhancements that may include some selection of:
- Alternate gears (pinion and crown)
- Alternate tires
- Alternate / Hotter motor(s)
- Bronze bushings / ball bearings for the axles
- Silver plated pick-up braids
- Etc
Similar to the Aurora Thunderjet "Hop up kit" theme?
 
Just some thoughts...