1. What locations and methods do you use for your soldering points of the can? Do you use the JK thingie that is used to brace a Falcon style motor in?
2. What approximate gearing do you run for 64 pitch gears and about .740" tire?
Thanks!
S16C in a JK X25 chassis questions
Started by
Pablo
, Nov 01 2011 08:36 PM
74 replies to this topic
#1
Pablo
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Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:36 PM
Those who have experience with S16C motors in JK stamped steel chassis, I have two questions:
1. What locations and methods do you use for your soldering points of the can? Do you use the JK thingie that is used to brace a Falcon style motor in?
2. What approximate gearing do you run for 64 pitch gears and about .740" tire?
Thanks!
1. What locations and methods do you use for your soldering points of the can? Do you use the JK thingie that is used to brace a Falcon style motor in?
2. What approximate gearing do you run for 64 pitch gears and about .740" tire?
Thanks!
Paul Wolcott
#2
W. J. Dougherty
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Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:54 PM
Solder it straight to the chassis on the can end. If you wish to also solder in the back use either a "L" brace or a piece of 3/32" tubing between the can and the chassis.
Your gear ratio will depend upon your track; as the tire gets smaller be prepared to go up a tooth on your pinion...
Your gear ratio will depend upon your track; as the tire gets smaller be prepared to go up a tooth on your pinion...
Yortuk & Georg Festrunk
#3
Roho21
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Posted 01 November 2011 - 09:15 PM
Hey Pablo,
Depending on track of course, but usually a S16C around a 8/38. If it's for LaGrange, maybe a little more gear, trouble is getting bigger spurs to clear, usually go to 72 pitch to get where you need to be.
Depending on track of course, but usually a S16C around a 8/38. If it's for LaGrange, maybe a little more gear, trouble is getting bigger spurs to clear, usually go to 72 pitch to get where you need to be.
Roger Holtsclaw
#4
Pablo
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Posted 01 November 2011 - 09:47 PM
Thanks, guys.
Paul Wolcott
#5
GearBear
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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:58 PM
Pablo,
I prefer to bend a U-shaped brace out of .062" wire for the rear motor mount. This provides more surface area than the JK brace. For gearing, I use 8/43 with a .540" diameter S16C in a Cahoza UL can with T2 mags. I set the track record for both qualifying time and total laps with this setup at the Wade 500 last month.
Also, try putting C11 .030" pans on the X25 center! Works REALLY well and saves about a gram of weight in the process.
I prefer to bend a U-shaped brace out of .062" wire for the rear motor mount. This provides more surface area than the JK brace. For gearing, I use 8/43 with a .540" diameter S16C in a Cahoza UL can with T2 mags. I set the track record for both qualifying time and total laps with this setup at the Wade 500 last month.
Also, try putting C11 .030" pans on the X25 center! Works REALLY well and saves about a gram of weight in the process.
Gary Johnson
#6
Pablo
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Posted 02 November 2011 - 09:32 PM
Thanks Gary. Holy mackeral, > 5 to one 
On your U brace, I assume you mean with the open end of the U facing left on a top view ?
Or does it matter ? Does it lay flat on both sides ?
On your U brace, I assume you mean with the open end of the U facing left on a top view ?
Or does it matter ? Does it lay flat on both sides ?
Paul Wolcott
#7
John C Martin
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 01:55 PM
pablo for lagrange i'm thinking 8.35 gears ,720 tires ,also think of running a 25 center a 25 pan on the left ,and a 30 pan on the right and a piece of thumb nail size lead behind the guide the last gtp race i was in there chad beat our ks16c bad with a contender? tryed different thickness pans depending on which way donut goes, heavy to inside.
#8
Pablo
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 01:59 PM
Thanks JC.
Paul Wolcott
#9
Guy Spaulding
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:03 PM
pablo for lagrange i'm thinking 8.35 gears ,720 tires ,also think of running a 25 center a 25 pan on the left ,and a 30 pan on the right and a piece of thumb nail size lead behind the guide the last gtp race i was in there chad beat our ks16c bad with a contender? tryed different thickness pans depending on which way donut goes, heavy to inside.
This may very well be the fastest setup for those who have no fear of turning into a pretzel!
#10
Pablo
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:15 PM
Guyster, ask anybody, I have zero fear of tearing up equipment.
Paul Wolcott
#11
Guy Spaulding
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:21 PM
Guyster, ask anybody, I have zero fear of tearing up equipment.
Thanks for the advisement, Paul. Gives me more reason to stick with my C25 should we meet
#12
John C Martin
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:26 PM
but guy this is very smooth and fast orange track like 2 blips and the good driver i know pablo is i see no problem except for landmines seriously its strong enough i've had no problems.
#13
Pablo
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:32 PM
Now you got me confused Guyster, what is a C25 ?
Paul Wolcott
#14
Guy Spaulding
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 05:25 PM
Now you got me confused Guyster, what is a C25 ?
Cheetah 25, two-piece, .035", short wheel-base, open motor box version of the C11. Much beefier guide tongue.
#15
Pablo
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 05:42 PM
And that differs from a JK X25 how? 
Still confused...
Still confused...
Paul Wolcott
#16
JohnnySlotcar
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:51 PM
Different name, same frame!
John Austin
#17
Pablo
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 07:39 PM
Thanks, John A. 
That's what I thought.
Not sure what the Guyster is talking about...
That's what I thought.Not sure what the Guyster is talking about...
Paul Wolcott
#18
GearBear
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:27 PM
Pablo,
I forgot to mention, this was on the flat track (Canadian White) with .700" tires to start (actually I think they were closer to .690") but I was at the minimun clearance of .032" after qualifying. I use the same gearing on the Twister as PSCR. But yes, this is a very low gear ratio! This makes the car much easier to drive in the corners, but not so fast on the straight.
I've set up the X25 with .025" pans, .030" pans, and the stock pans. In most of my testing the .030" pans seem to work better. The only place the .025" pans worked better was on the King in Chicago at the Nats.
The U-shaped brace I make has the flat U bottom against the motor with the legs next to each axle upright. This helps to strengthen the back of the chassis and gives great support for the motor.
I forgot to mention, this was on the flat track (Canadian White) with .700" tires to start (actually I think they were closer to .690") but I was at the minimun clearance of .032" after qualifying. I use the same gearing on the Twister as PSCR. But yes, this is a very low gear ratio! This makes the car much easier to drive in the corners, but not so fast on the straight.
I've set up the X25 with .025" pans, .030" pans, and the stock pans. In most of my testing the .030" pans seem to work better. The only place the .025" pans worked better was on the King in Chicago at the Nats.
The U-shaped brace I make has the flat U bottom against the motor with the legs next to each axle upright. This helps to strengthen the back of the chassis and gives great support for the motor.
Gary Johnson
#19
Guy Spaulding
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:15 PM
The JK website was confusing for sometime, freely mixing "X" and "C". Now they've straightened up and it makes (a little more) sense now.
The X24 is a 2-piece chassis, based on the cheetah 11, and includes the "bendo-matic" guide tongue.
The X25 (my favorite) is a newer release with shorter wheelbase and much stronger guide tongue (I swear the site used to call it "C25". I studied carefully before listing my braces on ebay)
The Cheetah 21 (why they dont call it "X21") is a long wheelbase, even stronger front end and an enclosed motor box with an upright motor mount.
Of course they make an .025" version of the cheetah 11, and it's center section is altogether different from all the other frames.
Anyone want to list the other options?
Lets stick with the Turbo-flex - Fewer options
(jk)
The X24 is a 2-piece chassis, based on the cheetah 11, and includes the "bendo-matic" guide tongue.
The X25 (my favorite) is a newer release with shorter wheelbase and much stronger guide tongue (I swear the site used to call it "C25". I studied carefully before listing my braces on ebay)
The Cheetah 21 (why they dont call it "X21") is a long wheelbase, even stronger front end and an enclosed motor box with an upright motor mount.
Of course they make an .025" version of the cheetah 11, and it's center section is altogether different from all the other frames.
Anyone want to list the other options?
Lets stick with the Turbo-flex - Fewer options
(jk)
#20
Pablo
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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:36 PM
OK Guyster, now we are singing off the same sheet of music
You bring up an excellent point....when in doubt, I use a TFlex.....no questions about eliminating wheel chatter there......easy day
Gary, thanks for the brace info, that's the kind of thing I was looking for exactly
You bring up an excellent point....when in doubt, I use a TFlex.....no questions about eliminating wheel chatter there......easy day
Gary, thanks for the brace info, that's the kind of thing I was looking for exactly
Paul Wolcott
#21
JohnnySlotcar
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Posted 04 November 2011 - 01:31 AM
Pablo,
I run an X25 with a Super 16C on our Grandstand. Geared 9/38, it screams and handles exceptionally. The thicker X25 prevents the dreaded bank launch and the way-stronger guide tongue is great. Adding the straightness of the chassis out of the bag makes it a true winner.
I run an X25 with a Super 16C on our Grandstand. Geared 9/38, it screams and handles exceptionally. The thicker X25 prevents the dreaded bank launch and the way-stronger guide tongue is great. Adding the straightness of the chassis out of the bag makes it a true winner.
- Silver Fox likes this
John Austin
#22
Pablo
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Posted 04 November 2011 - 02:04 AM
9/38 with what size tires? .720"? Thanks for all the input, guys, I appreciate it. It ain't easy living down here in the "black hole" of slot car racing.
Paul Wolcott
#23
JohnnySlotcar
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Posted 04 November 2011 - 08:20 AM
My mistake - should be 9/43 with .720" tires!
John
John
John Austin
#24
dingleberry
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Posted 13 March 2012 - 02:57 PM
Bump...
I have the same set-up as Pablo and while running a S16D on the Engleman, I have been able to produce time of 4.2 using a O/S Bentlee GTP body.
Purple track HERE.
Here recently, we decided to switch to a S16C in hopes I would gain a few tenths at least. Starting out with a gearing of 8/37 as recommended, this thing was a dud. It was a full one second lower. We tried changing the pinion one tooth at a time and stopped when we reached a 13/37. This combo result was still a full 1/2 second slower, with a time around the 4.7 mark.
Do we have lemon motors or what? Please advise.
S16C motor info:
Koford can
Koford endbell
Koford magnets (matched)
Pro Slot 45 deg arm
Mura Bigfoot II brushes
Champion light springs
Thanks,
jb
I have the same set-up as Pablo and while running a S16D on the Engleman, I have been able to produce time of 4.2 using a O/S Bentlee GTP body.
Purple track HERE.
Here recently, we decided to switch to a S16C in hopes I would gain a few tenths at least. Starting out with a gearing of 8/37 as recommended, this thing was a dud. It was a full one second lower. We tried changing the pinion one tooth at a time and stopped when we reached a 13/37. This combo result was still a full 1/2 second slower, with a time around the 4.7 mark.
Do we have lemon motors or what? Please advise.
S16C motor info:
Koford can
Koford endbell
Koford magnets (matched)
Pro Slot 45 deg arm
Mura Bigfoot II brushes
Champion light springs
Thanks,
jb
Jason Bishop
#25
Chris Barnes
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Posted 13 March 2012 - 04:16 PM
Pablo,
Back to one of your original questions - soldering the motor. I feel it is best to sold the can on the rear of the chassis. If you only are soldered on the end and the front, a big frontal impact may lean the motor forward, messing up your gear mesh. Nothing is crash proof, but it may help you limp to the end of a heat to check you car. If the gear mesh is screwed, you may be out of the race especially at the first of a heat.
Back to one of your original questions - soldering the motor. I feel it is best to sold the can on the rear of the chassis. If you only are soldered on the end and the front, a big frontal impact may lean the motor forward, messing up your gear mesh. Nothing is crash proof, but it may help you limp to the end of a heat to check you car. If the gear mesh is screwed, you may be out of the race especially at the first of a heat.
