74 replies to this topic

[John C Martin]

sounds like a dud arm ,,depending on tire size i run 730s and on that track probably a 9x35 gear, the voltage is 13.6 with no cars,,i noticed it only drops to 13.3 in race.. yeah change arm, sometimes arms are more degrees than they say, more than 45 deg. is not good, could be 48 deg. check to be sure brushes are'nt stuck or springs are'nt collasped ,i would rather have a 42 deg.,, my 4.5 nascar with a hawk 7 ran a 4.6 when we were down 2 weeks ago ..

[gotboostedvr6]

jb,

What air gap are you running?

When was the last time you have the arm redone?

How many amps does the motor draw unloaded at 5 volts?

-Dave

[dingleberry]

'gotboostedvr6', on 13 Mar 2012 - 9:47 PM, said:

jb,

What air gap are you running?

When was the last time you have the arm redone?

How many amps does the motor draw unloaded at 5 volts?

-Dave

Hi Dave,
I am not sure of the air gap, but it looks very tight and just as good or better than he other guys here.

The motors were pulling 3 amps at 5 volts.

Also note:
These are brand new motors, including the arms and have been blueprinted and broken in.

Thanks
Jb

[Pablo]

Jason, I have seen some so-called "blueprinted" motors that were a JOKE. It all depends on WHO "blueprinted" it......
This may or may not pertain to your problem, I can't say....

[dingleberry]

'Pablo', on 14 Mar 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

Jason, I have seen some so-called "blueprinted" motors that were a JOKE. It all depends on WHO "blueprinted" it......
This may or may not pertain to your problem, I can't say....

This has turned into a very discouraging situation for all the parties involved. There were (2) of these motors purchased, one for me and one for my friend. We were going to run this motor in the Nats this year on March 31st, but with these issues, it will not be so. The parma black endbell motor is just as fast as these are.........

The builder, Mick A, from Slot Car City has been contacted and he basically said he is not going to do anything about it, even though it is clear we have "dud" armatures. We have had several people test these motors including our 40 year track veteran "Bernie Bernstein", and we have all come to this same conclusion...... me and my friend are out $75.00 each.

To keep any others from purchasing these motors, here is a link to what we bought:

http://www.slotcarci...g.php?item=1427

Thanks for all your input fellas.

[Pablo]

Since I started this thread, I hope nobody minds ( ) if I comment further.....

Jason, this, again, may or may not apply to your situation. In addition to knowing WHO "blueprinted" a motor, it is important to know exactly how much effort was put forth to do the correct work. Someone may be knowledgeable, yet skip steps/cut corners to make a quick buck. Anybody who assembles race motors quickly, is either an expert with that particular setup with lots of practice, or, cutting corners. Greg Wells' "C-Can Instructions" here on Slotblog is a great step by step blueprinting manual. Anybody not doing it this way, the hard way, is a quick assembler, NOT a blueprinter.

Having said that, I know for a fact Mick knows how to blueprint a motor, and I have no idea what happened in your situation.

Buy the tools, do the homework, and make your own motors, it is a lot of fun !

[dingleberry]

'Pablo', on 14 Mar 2012 - 1:58 PM, said:

Buy the tools, do the homework, and make your own motors, it is a lot of fun!

Thanks, Pablo. Yes, this is the next step.

Got a link to: "C-Can Instructions" by Greg Wells?... search function did not find anything.

[John C Martin]

Dingleberry,

I'll be glad to loan you some new Kelly built S16Cs. They haven't been run yet but i think we can find something for you. Hate to see someone screwed like that. They are actually Terry's, like 90% of what I have, but he won't mind; he's a very generous person and would do so himself.

I'll be there Tues. around 3 PM.

[dingleberry]

'John C Martin', on 14 Mar 2012 - 2:55 PM, said:

Dingleberry i'll be glad to loan you some new kelly built s16cs ,, they haven't been run yet but i think we can find something for you,, hate to see someone screwed like that ,,they are actually terrys like 90% of what i have ,, but he won't mind he's a very generous person and would do so himself. i'll be there tues. around 3 pm

thanks for the offer John. Will the Kelly built S16C be allowed to run in the GTP class on Saturday? For some reason, I thought these were not allowed.....

[Cheater]

'dingleberry', on 14 Mar 2012 - 2:17 PM, said:

Got a link to: "C-Can Instructions" by Greg Wells?... search function did not find anything.

Pablo didn't give you a usable search string...

Here's a link for you:

Building race-winning C-cans

[dingleberry]

Thanks, cheater!

[Pablo]

Thanks for the assist, Greg W.!

Jason, the motor John M. has offered to loan you is a S16C, built by Kelly. Anywhere S16C motors are legal, this motor would be legal. Your confusion probably stems from the confusion between a Kelly "KS-16C" and a S16C. The Kelly-made "KS16C" arm is a COMPLETELY different animal than a S16C. No worries.

Chris Barnes, I forgot to say "Thanks" for the motor brace info. I will be doing that.

[John C Martin]

Yes, these are the S16C arms... the outlaw KS16S arms are not legal; they are a short stack version.

[Pablo]

I am pablo and I approved this thread

I will actually build the complete X25 chassis/S16C/GTP car for the 2012 AMSRA NATS, as soon as I get off work this week

All new parts, .540 OD ProSlot arm, Cahoza mags set at 20 thou gap, Speed FX setup, Gold Dust brushes, gears 9/37, JK treated rears .720 OD, O/S Bentlee body. I'm not worried anybody would copy me, the better drivers will outdrive me anyway. I just want a fast car that handles. We shall see

[dingleberry]

thanks for the replies all.

'Pablo', on 14 Mar 2012 - 3:35 PM, said:

All new parts, .540 OD ProSlot arm, Cahoza mags set at 20 thou gap, Speed FX setup, Gold Dust brushes, gears 9/37, JK treated rears .720 OD, O/S Bentlee body. I'm not worried anybody would copy me, the better drivers will outdrive me anyway. I just want a fast car that handles. We shall see

this sounds like my exact setup!

may I ask what degree arm will you be using?

[John C Martin]

YES AND WHEN I GROW UP I WANT TO BE JUST LIKE ME !!

[Pablo]

40 something. There is no magic number for timing. The higher you go, the hotter it will run. It all depends on your particular track.
Conservative is 38 degrees. Hot is 46 degrees. Different manufacturers measure timing in different ways. 42 degrees is a safe number. Start there and adjust. If it runs hot, gear it with less pinion teeth. If it runs cool, add a pinion tooth. If it STILL runs cool, bump up the timing This is all black art, and having said that, I need some sleep................

[Pablo]

Good Night, JC, you are the man of the year 2012

[dingleberry]

thanks for the much needed info Pablo. .....

[Pablo]

I thought of something Steve Harrington taught me when I built a motor that was running erratic and giving me fits !!!
Once in a blue moon, for no particular reason, the EB screws will touch, and short out on, the EB hardware. Easy test to see if that is your problem, just back out the screws a little, then test. If those screws are shorting out the hardware, it can cause you to tear out your hair ....

Or, as you said, you may just have a bad arm. A guy with a meter who knows what he is doing can find out if the arm is shorted.

[John C Martin]

for sure had this happen more than once .. probably due to someone drilling end bell screw holes holes off a little ..blueprinting ???? yeah right..

[Pablo]

Guilty as charged, sir.
I have had a steep learning curve the last 10 years

[GearBear]

Jason,

2 weeks ago I had a racer ask me what was wrong with his car. He had a Cahoza UL can, T5 Mags, .540 42 degree ProSlot arm in his X25 chassis with an O/S 069 BentLee mounted. He had geared the car at 9/43. The car was a dog and lacked brakes. I suggested he change the gearing to 8/43. Last weekend he showed up with the car. It was like a whole new motor! With the 9T the motor wouldn't rev and was truly a dog. With the 8T the motor revved to the max and had great brakes. The car was much better with the low gear ratio.

If you are running a .540 diam arm, the timing on them makes a big difference IMHO. A 38 degree arm won't rev out enough to use the low gear ratios these motors like. IMHO, you are gearing your car too high or you got a 38 degree arm. Bring the motor to the Nats. What works on your track may be totally different to what works on their track. Feel free to look me up down there, I'll be driving down on the 24th and should be at the track on the 25th.

[Pablo]

Talking about the AMSRA Nats, Gary ? Or ??

[Mopar Rob]

My guess is Gary is talking about the up coming USRA Nat's at SCR the last weekend in March?


http://www.scrhobbies.com/

http://www.usraslots...usra-nats-info/