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AAR LMP Delta Wing project progress


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#101 bbr

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:41 PM

the car is so cool, such a different approach to current racing cars
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#102 Rapid Rick

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:01 PM

On Friday with support from Dan Gurney's guys the LMP Delta Wing pictured made two laps at Sebring. I don't remember who was driving but they were very animated about the cars ability to turn. It looked a lot slower than the GT and Lemans cars I had been watching in testing since February, and slower as well than the INDY Cars during last weeks testing...but it was neat to watch.

I'm a skeptic as well... but with rear-steer and camber...combined with the many chassis techniques available/used today on Dirt or Asphalt (or Cement) we are able to watch amazing speeds on all types of curcuits.

It doesn't look like a road racing car to me...but I'm looking forward to seeing how it runs at Lemans in June.

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#103 TSR

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:10 PM

Rick,
The laps were "demo" laps and were in no way supposed to establish any speed records. it was simply to show the car to spectators. :)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#104 Rapid Rick

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:10 PM

On Friday at Sebring, with support from Dan Gurney's Guys, the Delta Wing LMP car made two laps at Sebring. After watching INDY Cars and GT's since January at the track the car looked slow. The driver though, who I don't recall was very animated about the cars turning ability.

I'm a skeptic as well..and think it looks goofy for a Road Racing "vehicle". But I have learned that todays technologies can do amazing things. With Camber and Rear-Steer it will most likely turn-well. I'm amazed at how cars handle on Dirt, Asphalt or Cement...for that matter.

It will be interesting in June at Lemans when "The Car" is On-Track with other Hybrid's and Competition Cars. I'll be watching again.....RRR

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#105 chaparrAL

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:13 PM

Man! sure seems to have a wide rear track.
I think it could be made to steer quite well by manipulating the diff or rear brakes. :victory:
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#106 TSR

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:16 PM

No need, the steering and the front wheels are there for that. :)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#107 TSR

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:43 PM

Darn, that thing loves the rain too!

And no windshield wipers were harmed during the test.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#108 Tex

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:57 PM

Can't WAIT to see it racing "in anger"! Hope it at least finishes.
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#109 TSR

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:00 AM

Latest: CLICK HERE.

Looks like Nissan got their boy in... :)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#110 MG Brown

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:54 PM

Looks like Nissan got their boy in... :)


I am sure most observers were expecting something such as this would come about.

I'm somewhat curious why Toyota didnt become involved- given their past association with AAR. Too busy conquering NASCAB I imagine?

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace


#111 TSR

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:17 AM

No, too busy with their own LMP1 program!
Why would they need TWO different vehicles, when they can't even get their own program going.
Nissan sponsors the Deltawing but it is not really a Nissan motor either, but a specially built unit by a British specialized firm.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#112 Grant G.

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:30 PM

Is Toyota still planning on being at Lemans this year? The lastest reports I could find are from back in January.

I was reading one of Carroll Smith's books recently and he had dedicated it to Phil Remington. After doing a little bit of research about Phil I found it incredible that he is still a master craftsman working with Dan Gurney's AAR team at the age of 90! Phil was one of the fellows that made the Ford GTs so successful at Lemans in the early years.

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#113 TSR

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:26 PM

Toyota is indeed panning to run their new LMP at Le Mans. They were supposed to run it at Spa, but Nicolas Lapierre kind of demolished the first car in testing at Paul Ricard and the tub was too damaged to repair that car, so they postponed their debut to June.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#114 Tex

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:12 PM

No pressure there... debuting a new car the same month as the race. LOL

Bon Chance to them.

AND AAR Delta Wing!
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#115 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:28 PM

http://p.twimg.com/AsYr3seCAAE9Tm8.jpg

Pete Varlan


#116 TSR

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:54 PM

Hi Pete,
You could also add this one:

Posted Image

But neither the Brabham or the Eagle above are 3-wheelers... :)

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#117 MG Brown

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:24 PM

Interesting new development.... http://auto-racing.s...ights-proposal/

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace


#118 MG Brown

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:45 PM

More news as the DeltaWing prepares to run Petit Le Mans later this month.

http://www.alms.com/...6?fullsite=true

Customer cars for 2013? Wow.

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace


#119 TSR

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

In fact the low cost of both purchasing the car and especially running it (bullet-proof engine, 1/2 the fuel, 1/4 of the tires for the same performance) make it an ideal candidate for teams running P2 at this time, or GT teams wanting to move one step up. A brilliant vehicle that has now amply proven the value of its concept.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#120 tonyp

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:59 PM

Quick question, when it steers do th effrontery tires lean over like a motor cycle or stay up right. I never though it would work at all, but it does so that is pretty damn cool.

It is not ugly as much as alien. Just doesn't look like what we accept as a car. But the more it runs the better it will look, kinda of like f1's they are ugly but you eventually get used to them.
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#121 MG Brown

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:09 PM

Tony: this is the best illustration that I could find of how the DeltaWing turns.

Posted Image

Unfortunately this is from the earlier single seater but I believe the overall concept is nearly identical.

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace


#122 tonyp

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:20 PM

Interesting. Looks like they tilt a little or have lots of caster.
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#123 TSR

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:26 PM

Quick question, when it steers do th effrontery tires lean over like a motor cycle or stay up right. I never though it would work at all, but it does so that is pretty damn cool.

It is not ugly as much as alien. Just doesn't look like what we accept as a car. But the more it runs the better it will look, kinda of like f1's they are ugly but you eventually get used to them.


Tony,
All the weight is just forward of the rear axle. There is very little up front. The front twin wheels steer just like a regular car, staying vertical, but because there is little weight over them, the car at first steered... too well and they had to reduce the steering ratio to soften it. The car does not know what under-steer is, it just goes where it is pointed. There was concern that the lack of conventional "wheel in each corner" would render driving in traffic difficult but it simply is not the case. The car simply drives like a normal car, only with much greater efficiency. It is a more logical solution to the question of being as efficient as possible with the least amount of energy expanded.

it might look ugly to some but as you point out, look at modern F1 and I cannot think of something uglier.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#124 tonyp

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:30 PM

I bet the hardest part of driving it in traffic is remembering that if you can get the nose into a hole there is not enough room for the back. Some of the new F1 aces would be deadly driving it.
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#125 TSR

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:34 PM

So far it has not been an issue in traffic, with all the drivers saying that there was no problem.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#126 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:40 PM

BATMOBILE
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#127 TSR

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:35 PM

Absolutely, especially in that color scheme!

You got to see that thing going, its is truly impressive. :)

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#128 Tex

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:06 PM

So far it has not been an issue in traffic, with all the drivers saying that there was no problem.


Maybe not with the drivers of the DeltaWing, but what about the OTHER drivers? Could the Le Mans incident have been partially due to what Tony described, except that the driver of the OTHER car didn't really "see" the DW due to the lesser visible frontal area?
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#129 TSR

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:55 AM

Richard, the Japanese Toyota driver ran into the BACK of the car, because he was too much in a hurry to bother checking for other vehicles on track.

Not a single driver complained about ANYTHING during practice or the running of the race regarding any traffic issues with the Deltawing.

There is no lesser visible frontal area on the Deltawing. In your mirrors when it passes you if you are either in a GT or an LMP2 car, it looks just the same as a conventional car.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#130 Tex

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:56 PM

Duh! Yeah, I guess just because the front is "less" than a conventional LMP/2, the rear is still the same width; hence, no lesser visibility.
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#131 MG Brown

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:12 PM

Big congrats to the Deltawing team for their 6th place overall finish at Petit LeMans. I guess they were first in class too since they were running in a class by themselves!

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace


#132 TSR

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:32 PM

They ARE in a class by themselves:

1/ They have only 300 HP to play with, VS a minimum of 500 HP for ANY other car on the track. They also use 1/2 the fuel and 1/4 of the tires compared to ANY other car on track.

2/ They have proven to the world that at this time, the Deltawing concept is superior in its efficiency over conventional "2-axle" cars in racing conditions. Boost the power to 400 to 450 and they will clean everyone's clock, with no other changes on the car, that is currently grossly underpowered. Easy to do on that Nissan engine: turn the wick. Will the rule makers let them?

3/ They have confounded the naysayers.

Congratulations indeed, they deserve it.

Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#133 MSwiss

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 12:00 AM

I bet a 300hp F1 car would do pretty well,also.

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#134 tonyp

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:46 AM

Clap, clap, clap. Job well done.
tonyp
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But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan, 1965

#135 Tex

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:58 AM

Nobody ran into it? HOORAY!

Well done!

Can't wait to see the slot car version!
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#136 Zippity

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:44 PM

It is Fugly and will never race against real cars :(

#137 MSwiss

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 03:03 PM

Can't wait to see the slot car version!

Maybe that's why I'm not crazy excited about the car.
I don't see how a slot car version would ever work very well.
I made a scratchbuilt anglelwinder, C12 powered, Indy bodied car when I first opened the raceway in 2005.
I let the front wheels float up and down, real freely.
Without any skids or definitively mounted front wheels to keep the front of the car from rocking, it was probably the worse handling slot car I ever driven,
setting distance records launching from the bank to my overhead door.

Mike Swiss
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#138 Phil Hackett

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

It is Fugly and will never race against real cars :(


They said the same things about the Can-Am Chaparral's and rear engine Indy cars. :D
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Posted Image

#139 Zippity

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:21 PM

They said the same things about the Can-Am Chaparral's and rear engine Indy cars. :D


Wait and see.

Wanna take a bet with me?

#140 MG Brown

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:39 PM

In this case Panoz is interested in making customer Deltawings, and "The Don" is of course one of the founders of the ALMS and wields considerable influence in that sanctioning body. Panoz also owns Sebring and Road Atlanta which are two important tracks key to the success of the upcoming ALMS and Grand Am merger.

Radical race cars such as the Chaparrals and the Indy turbine cars were built, entered and raced by "outsiders" not necessarily in the good graces of the SCCA and USAC respectively. The Deltawing, at least for the moment, seems to have the blessing of a member of the North American racing establishment.

If pressed for a guess- I would not be surprised to see the Deltawing become the spec car for the ALMS/GA version of the present day ALMS Prototype Challenge (PC) class.

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace


#141 Tex

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 05:55 PM

I was kidding about the slot car version, Mike; I can easily envision exactly what you say as the reason(s) not to pursue that avenue.
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#142 MG Brown

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:02 PM

Another "How it works" explanation.


When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace


#143 TSR

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

A triangle will always work better than a square. It's that simple.

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#144 MG Brown

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:16 PM

I'm sure you knew this was coming.

579167_4846291079013_990801515_n.jpg

I am trying to find out more details about the car, who built it, and how it runs. Stay tuned.

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace


#145 Phil Hackett

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

Modern slot cars are a triangle.... no squares. The guide flag **are ** the front wheels....

BTW: that's a nice job on that slot car.
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#146 Duffy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:00 PM

Still can't run in Retro. Misses the cutoff date by a mile, dude. Sorry. Just, y'know, FYI.
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#147 TSR

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:00 PM

A slot car is a different animal as its steering is not induced by the driver. So it cannot be compared.

The Deltawing works because of the simple physical reasoning behind it, that applies its down force at a given point.

Two-axle cars need two points of application of down force, that effectively fight each other.

The Deltawing only needs one, allowing it to be much lighter and use its much lower power and narrower tires more effectively.

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#148 MG Brown

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:24 PM

Still can't run in Retro. Misses the cutoff date by a mile, dude. Sorry. Just, y'know, FYI.


So much for my turbine powered F1 DeltaWing idea.


Some information on the slot car is coming in bits and pieces. The body is from Pattos Place in Australia. The motor is a Trinity Evil 9.

Apparently the slot car works much the same as its 1:1 counterpart. Surprisingly stable in the turns and blisteringly fast in a straight line.

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace


#149 GotToRace

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

I have GOT to have some of those slot car bodies. This thing reminds me of my favorite slot car from the 60's, the Classic ASP. COOL stuff.
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#150 MG Brown

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:46 PM

That's what I thought- the design is very ASP-esque. IIRC Pattos has the ASP body repops also.

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle - Uma Thurman as Mia Wallace






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