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AAR LMP Delta Wing project progress


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#61 Ron Hershman

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:07 PM

Grandaddy to those VW commercials with the Darth Vader kid. LOL


One of the "best" commercials when they run it "full length"
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#62 TSR

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

Posted Image
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#63 Duffy

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:22 PM

Hmm...Darth Audi.


"....Luuuke...<wheeze>...I am NOT your Father's Oldsmobile...<wheeze>..."
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Michael J. Heinrich

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#64 Mopar Rob

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:08 PM

Obvously, the team saved some time using the 1989 Batmobile as inspiration?


01408-02736.jpg
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#65 MG Brown

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:39 AM

I just want it in the race so Red Fox can make a Eurosport body of the Delta Wing for ISRA.
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"Doc, just set them fingers sose I can hold the wheel"James Hurtubise, June, 1964


#66 Steve Deiters

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:12 PM

If you go to the Autoweek website there is a brief video of the Delta car on the track. Not at speed, but appears they are shaking the car down.
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#67 TSR

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:19 PM

The main thing is it worked, turning corners with remarkable stability. So far, so good.


“Well, it is counter-intuitive,” said chief designer Ben Bowlby, formerly of Lola Cars. “For a long time, we all believed that the world was flat, because it's counter-intuitive to think that it's round, or spheroid or whatever.”


OK, so for the many here who were doubters of simple technology, let's go back to simply screaming in unison: "It's ugly!" since your other arguments are falling off the flat earth.
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#68 Duffy

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:31 PM

Actually it don't look all that bad. In a sinewy, swimmers-muscley way, not in a baaadass jailyard-buff lumpy way. I can deal with it.

Now, prove it out on the track, and shut us up by actually taking some races.
Then, we lot can start figuring out how to make it work with a guide shoe under there.

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Michael J. Heinrich

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#69 Ron Hershman

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:31 PM

OK, so for the many here who were doubters of simple technology, let's go back to simply screaming in unison: "It's ugly!" since your other arguments are falling off the flat earth.


Well until they get up to speed at LeMans we will have to wait to see.

If it's competitive.....great..... if not competitive....then we told ya so.
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#70 TSR

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:39 PM

Yes, Ron, let's change the subject of the conversation as you are such a master of it. :)

Now, prove it out on the track, and shut us up by actually taking some races.


Duffster, it is not the point. The point is, to show that equal performance can be achieved with half the weight and half the drag and half the fuel consumption and half the CO2 emissions. It is a laboratory on wheels.

90% of the doubters said very publicly that it could not corner. Now they are being proven wrong. If the car was inherently unstable, at the speed it went around the track in this preliminary test, it would have stood on its nose.

Now part two, more testing, more weight distribution adjustments, and let see if the lowered drag provides the necessary straight-line speed; that is crucial, more than cornering speed, at LeMans.
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#71 MG Brown

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:26 PM

As Steve said, apparently it can go around a race track...

DeltaWing race car hits track for first test
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#72 Duffy

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:46 PM

Duffster, it is not the point. The point is, to show that equal performance can be achieved with half the weight and half the drag and half the fuel consumption and half the CO2 emissions. It is a laboratory on wheels.

Now part two, more testing, more weight distribution adjustments, and let see if the lowed drag provides the necessary straight-line speed, that is crucial, more than cornering speed, at Le Mans.


And Spa, too. Other Enduros, not so much - but we'll see. Yah, the performance index is a part that gets missed a lot in these LeMans discussions.

I'd love to see this happen. I'm rooting for it.

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Michael J. Heinrich

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#73 TSR

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 11:07 PM

Michael,
Spa is quite twisty nowadays, not like the old days!
The Deltawing is a new concept and indeed needs to prove its worth, but the first test went very well and was very encouraging. The car has a lot more enemies than it has friends, but it has the ACO as a friend because they know that they will sell 50000 more tickets with the car in the show. People are a bit tired of seeing near-silent Audi Diesel torque machines pile up the laps, the ransom of success.
it's like watching Duran lap everyone every 10 laps at BPR, it's getting old bu the guy is damn good, so what to do?
Call Hershman for help and order a tricycle from him.
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#74 Duffy

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 11:17 PM

Call Hershman for help and order a tricycle from him.


Ohh, well, that's just froid.

Publicity is good in spectator sports, and even better when there's an underlying motivator--like here, not-like Danica Patrick (even tho' she can still wipe the track with my butt and most or you lot's as well, so shuddup)--so, yah, I'm cheering from the sidelines.

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Michael J. Heinrich

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#75 MSwiss

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 11:26 PM

I hope it works, but it looked like in the turns it was just going a little faster than the Suzuki econo-box
they let the celebrities use in on the U.S. version of Top Gear.

And I wonder how it will run in traffic.
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Mike Swiss
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#76 TSR

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 11:27 PM

Mike, time will tell... It was the first day it turned a wheel, it's probably going to be just fine.

Michael, I only drove the new Spa on a very sophisticated simulator setup with body motion and it is a great track even in its modified form. :)

But I still brake way too early with those modern F1 machines...
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#77 MG Brown

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 04:11 AM

Pardon me if I have missed something... But isn't this a slot car-esque "tripod" design?
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"Doc, just set them fingers sose I can hold the wheel"James Hurtubise, June, 1964


#78 ShootinSparks

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 05:08 AM

Pardon me if I have missed something.... But isn't this a slot car-esque "tripod" design?


Not sure what you mean. This vehicle has a narrow track up front, but "tripod" is not an accurate description because it has four wheels/tires.

Also, pardon me if I have missed your meaning. :wacko2:
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John Robeson

#79 MSwiss

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:38 AM

In that latest article, (see below), the designer himself refers to the delta-plan-form car as being known as a tricycle gear.


He also makes reference to the car having 3 points.


I guess "tricycle gear" is easier to say, or for people to understand, than trapezoid gear.


“Obviously, the center of gravity has to be between the widely spaced rear tires, otherwise you have a completely unstable device that will fall over. Essentially a delta-plan-form car, otherwise known as a tricycle gear, has to have the weight distribution very carefully observed. There isn't a huge latitude to where you put it. In a conventional rectangular layout, you have the ability to put the center of gravity in a lot of places, and it stays stable. In a delta-wing form you have to observe it very carefully. So you don't want the weight distribution 5 percent further forward, and you don't want it 5 percent further back. You have one spot. In racing, you can control that and end up with a very optimum tire utilization and light weight.”


Bowlby said that there is almost no torsional loading on the chassis, because there is not a pair of axles with their own stiffness.


“Three points makes a plane no matter where you put them. So the result is the chassis is under a very small amount of load. And there isn't a balance effect of different roll stiffness distributions. The car always has an intrinsic balance as a function of its mass, tire capacity and aerodynamic distribution.”


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Mike Swiss
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#80 Larry Mattingly

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:21 AM

It's ugly!


Yes, indeed... :)

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#81 TSR

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:33 AM

So is a NASCAR brick in my opinion. :)
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#82 Larry Mattingly

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:53 AM

So is a NASCAR brick in my opinion. :)


Yep, I knew that...

But, that fact doesn't make that Delta thingie pretty... :)

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#83 TSR

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:13 PM

Redundant. The only questions here are;
1) Will it perform as hoped by its designers?
2) If so, will it sell 50,000 more tickets for the ACO to get fatter?
3) Would it have revolutionized Indy car racing if selected instead of the Italo-Anglo-Japanese cars driven by Brazilians?
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#84 Duffy

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

Wow, you'd hope they could find a PR guy who can convey to us average Joes the subtle difference between three wheels and four.

Not being real knowledgeable about development in the last ~30 years, I still appreciate some of the underlying issues here. --Some. Maybe what's really needed is a breakdown for those of us who still think "Restrictor Plate" has something to do with the Mac-Cheese Special at the corner diner.

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#85 TSR

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 01:30 PM

This is why I order my chicken tacos with no cheese and no taco shell.

And I am still 20 over... :(
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#86 Alchemist

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:41 PM

It turns!


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#87 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:17 AM

there are mountains of race cars uglier than this. Almost all race cars in this country as a matter of fact.
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#88 Tex

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:55 AM

I'm pulling for it, too. To me, it's an exercise in innovation not unlike what Jim Hall (and Smokey Yunick) did with wings. Try something new; succeed or fail on the track, they've won by exercising their imagination and ingenuity.
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#89 TSR

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 12:31 PM

there are mountains of race cars uglier than this. Almost all race cars in this country as a matter of fact.


Indeed. Let's encourage innovation since that vehicle promises performance at half the cost. Not like a 5,000 lb car filled with AA batteries that lose their charge within 30 miles, then rely on smoke stacks to recharge.
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#90 TSR

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:44 AM

Nissan gets in the action.
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Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"





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