159 replies to this topic

[ravajack]

The layout of the blue King is probably the most well-known and successful slot car track design ever.

Is it known who was the original designer and creator?

[Ron Hershman]

The person or persons names never surfaced that I know of.

[TSR]

Bertil,

The only name I can give you is that of the American Model Car Raceways Inc. draftsman (W. Foster), but it is not a guarantee that he designed this or any of the other AMCR tracks... Anyway the AMCR drawings of installation are dated 1965 for the "Red Imperial" and 1966 for the "Blue King".

[ravajack]

Thanks, Philippe.

I'm just curious, as some hitherto unknown people and names behind epic slot racing memorablia seems to have surfaced lately.

For example the Cuc lady Millie Naeff and body designer Tony Bulone to mention a few.

Steve Ogilvie, Stan Engelman and Hasse Nilsson are some well-known track builders.

But I've never seen a face or name connected with the most famous track design ever, the blue King.

And as AMCR had a lot of different tracks and designs, exactly what made the King so successful and copied all over the world? We had some of these also in Sweden back in the day, and still have some new as Hasse is still active here.

[TSR]

Bertil,

I believe that the blue King was a successful design because it was probably the easiest of all the American Racing tracks to... drive. As I have been witnessing over the years, very few racers in the mid-range (the ones who truly keep the raceways in business by spending money) have little interest in racing on challenging tracks, and the King track races simply bring more racers.

I could be wrong, but this is what I have observed, and it became really true recently with the new wave of Retro racing; we have three tracks at BPR in California: a "Kingleman", which is a smaller 90' track with lots of challenges. a "MTT" flat track that is also challenging, and the Gerding-built "King" that is a speed billiard table. Well, after a few years, we could not get racers to run the Kingleman, and we get a lot less racers on the MTT than on the King.
Hence...

It is a sad state of affairs of course because the Kingleman and the MTT are so much fun to drive, but they apparently require a driving discipline that few are ready to put up with I guess...

[tonyp]

I think the success of the blue King is also because although they may all be different today vs the past, they still drive the same way. You could travel across the country and at least know how to drive the track. It became the standard back in the day and the King track races always had the most entries.

Back in the early days the motors were so bad life-wise you could not afford hundreds of hours to learn a difficult track and the odds of beating the locals was not very good. What I like about Retro is in the four years I have been running it, I probably have more hours of practice the all those years I raced pro.

[TSR]

And I second that! We can drive to our heart's content.

[MG Brown]

The King has a certain "flow" to how you drive it also.

Everyone knows the names of the parts.

[TSR]

"It's the island, Mon..."

[86ed once again]

Gorski would probably agree with you that the King has flow. His King dance, at the Checkpoint Cup this year, was great.

[Rickard Five]

It's really about the delusion, wing car guys and USRA, the same people that are killing the hobby, have created that if you don't have the Gerding-built "King" you'll never have a big race.

I raced at a track here in the '80s-'90s that had a American yellow, and it was 1,000 times more fun to drive! We have a local track that has a original American blue King, and the difference between it and a Gerding-built "King" is night and day. The original requires some driving skill; the Gerding-built "King" is a punch bowl.

[TSR]

Well, maybe with G7 door stops, but with our Retro cars, it is not. You still have to drive every corner...

But an older and real American Blue King presented definitely more challenge.

So how do you explain that most racers are snubbing the drivers tracks we have and are enthusiastic about driving on the punch bowl even knowing that they need to find the ultimate motor to succeed?

[Gator Bob]

Weren't the drawings/prints on eBay not that long ago? I would think the designer and the draftsman's names would be on it.

Like tony said the blue King back when the were all Americans you had an idea what to expect when you got there. It's the Gold Standard most everyone loves them ... Long straight/steep high speed bank helped make it a favorite to stretch the legs of any race car. Retro cars are so amazing and super reliable.

Speaking of drive to our hearts content and hours of practice time, I did 800 (needed) practice laps on an empty track, cool and oil about every 50 laps... that's it! Retro Can-Am on a King... perfect!

[idare2bdul]

I find the modern King track too punched with the limited horsepower of the Retro cars with the FK motors but with the faster RetroPro cars you get the same kind of speed rush you got with late '70s Group 27 cars. I prefer the challenge of the flat track.

What's this "practice," people keep talking about? Oh yeah, that's what people do who want to get better if they have time, money, and motivation. I'd like to have any one of the three.

[Mopar Rob]

Weren't the drawings/prints on eBay not that long ago? I would think the designer and the draftsman's names would be on it.

Those were more like assembly instructions. Yes, they probably had a name but that only means it was the person who did that print. Maybe it was the same person, maybe it wasn't?

For all we know some salesman could have sketched out the rough design on a cocktail napkin and gave it to engineering and said, "Make me this"?

[RomanK]

It's really about the delusion, wing car guys and USRA, the same people that are killing the hobby, have created that if you don't have the Gerding-built "King" you'll never have a big race. I raced at a track here in the '80s-'90s that had a American yellow, and it was 1,000 times more fun to drive! We have a local track that has a original American blue King, and the difference between it and a Gerding-built "King" is night and day. The original requires some driving skill; the Gerding-built "King" is a punch bowl.

Gee, Richard, kinda hard on "Wing Racers", aren't you? Perhaps those same wing racers are also the ones that helped keep the hobby alive while many others and retuning racers were off doing whatever it is that they've been doing all these years.

The only folks I've heard make the complaint about not being able to get a "big race" without a Gerding King are folks that had a track perhaps more ready for firewood than ready to host a big race. Perhaps folks with newer Gerding and other type tracks take a bit better care of them thus your confusion.

Come to think of it, you recently had a Nats in your backyard on a non-Gerding King; were you there? I don't recall hearing your name.

[jimht]

Not that I would ever fault anyone for their likes or dislikes, but the King is a space inefficient track that isn't much fun for beginners.

Then there's this design:



It takes up less space than a King, has a longer lap length, requires fewer turn marshals, and makes it easier for beginners to get their cars when they wreck.

Oh, and it allows geezers who can no longer keep up with the cars on a King to still race Opens.

King tracks are too short...

[S.O. Watt]

Ahhh nice! The only esses I like better are on an orange. Or an old Checked Flag 165...

[Cheater]

On a different but related subject, does anyone have any idea why the business history of American Model Raceway, Inc. is nearly non-existent? Has anyone ever been able to locate just where AMR was incorporated or who the principals were? I know in the distant past I tried to research the corp and came up completely empty-handed.

The fact that there's virtually no AMR business documentation except for materials supplied to purchasers of the tracks seems awfully fishy to me. As does the fact that no one from AMR has ever been heard from since the company went under AFAIK.

[RomanK]

Jim, you get a wing car race set up on that beautiful track and I will make every effort to visit you.

rk

[MG Brown]

Wow, Greg, I didn't realize that. Conspiracy theories anyone?

[MG Brown]

Jim, you get a wing car race set up on that beautiful track and I will make every effort to visit you.

But please relocate the drivers panels to the main straight?

[Cheater]

MG,

I think PdL has tracked down at least one of the AMR principals but that person has declined to speak with him. Sure is curious...

Some of the folks who might be able to respond to my query are at the R4, so maybe we'll have some better insight in a few days.

BTW, if you haven't taken a look at the R4/5 video stream, you should: it's the best I've ever seen, with live timing stats alongside. based on the number of racers in the house today for practice, I think the R4/5 attendance has a chance to be record-breaking.

[MG Brown]

Greg: thanks for the heads up, but I am not a fan of webcasting slot racing events for many reasons.

[jimht]

Jim, you get a wing car race set up on that beautiful track and I will make every effort to visit you.

Well, OK Roman, I'll think about it, looks nice in the picture, eh? Does need some work, though...

But please relocate the drivers panels to the main straight?

Why?

thanks for the heads up, but I am not a fan of webcasting slot racing events for many reasons

Beats not being able to get there... and as (if not more) informative to a spectator than watching at the race.

I watched Opens at Floyd's place in Oklahoma from the mezzanine and it was neat to be able to see the whole track at once. A webcam can do that. Watching racers is boring, usually, but from above one can actually see the competition between the cars.