159 replies to this topic

[Cheater]

McMasters has set a new benchmark with the video stream this year IMO.

[MG Brown]

I have raced on tracks where the drivers panels are on a corner and it is a major pain in the arse trying to marshal in that corner. it's not that expensive to make new panels.

My personal experience is that if a major event is webcast, the number of people who show up to the event is lowered dramatically - and a certain number of those that are there "watch" the race over the internet from their pit areas. This screws up the bandwidth for the raceway and causes the race officials to have to beg people to help out.

That's just my opinion and observation, yours may be different.

[flem1959]

It's really about the delusion, wing car guys and USRA, the same people that are killing the hobby

What is this guy talking about?

[jimht]

Marshaling in the corner on my Engleman is no more difficult than marshaling between the drivers along the main straight on a King.
Cars that crash in the last turn before the drivers straight and land in front of the drivers are always a pain, since the drivers are busy racing not marshaling.
That said, the turn you refer to is not a problem.
Besides, placing the drivers along the main straight leads to neck pain from the constant left to right twitching that isn't as necessary with the panel toward one end of the track.

Regarding information being broadcast to interested parties by webcams...this is the future we're in and we have to deal with it.

Those who prefer the view of the webcam even if they're actually in the Raceway may not have as good a vantage point as the camera, especially if they're working in the pits facing a wall.

All slot car races have those who would rather sit than marshal...which is why marshaling should not be optional.

McMasters webcam view is better than what the racers at the event will get and quite enjoyable, even if it is one of those "King Tracks"...

[Arne Saknussem]

The USRA is heading for marginalization. Just look around and see what kind of slot racing is getting participation and what isn't. 'Nuff said.

But back to the topic of who designed the King!

[flem1959]

Not that I would ever fault anyone for their likes or dislikes, but the King is a space inefficient track that isn't much fun for beginners.

Then there's this design:



It takes up less space than a King, has a longer lap length, requires fewer turn marshals, and makes it easier for beginners to get their cars when they wreck.

Oh, and it allows geezers who can no longer keep up with the cars on a King to still race Opens.

King tracks are too short...

That`s a neat looking track. I would love to race on that.

I like racing on Kings, but most of the newer cars all handle so well that it usually becomes a horsepower race.
I find ISRA very interesting and challenging, and I like the style of the cars.
Wing cars on flatter tracks are also very fun.

[Arne Saknussem]

Jim...

I had a pretty nice Engelman at my raceway and the corner referred to was never a problem for me either. The cars tended to end up short of the turn exit or on the floor. And three marshals could handle the race nicely. And while we're speaking of track design and idiots, in what universe is a bridge crossing directly over the top of a deslotting area (as in King, Imperial, Monarch, etc) anything other than stupid?

[tjcdas]

Our local track is very similar.

[Duffy]

Well, after a few years, we could not get racers to run the Kingleman, and we get a lot less racers on the MTT than on the King.
Hence...

This's sad. I figure it's one of those "RACER" things, like "Jail Door's too squirrelly to be challenging, therefore it's not fun." Retro East has, so far, managed to stage enjoyable events with "other" classes on some challenging tracks, and the turn-out seems to sustain the effort. We also have a couple of very nice speedy non-Kings on the circuit, like the sweet Ogilvie Hillclimb at Slot Racing Revival, and SpeedZone's famous Engleman (not to mention their delightfully-sicko Jersey Devil, which begs more attention!).

Everyone knows the names of the parts.

Har. Overheard the other day in practice on a non-King: "Watch the ...whatthehellisthat, just WATCH IT!!!..."

Duffy

[Zippity]

You mean is wasn't Al Gore?

[Duffy]

Al Gore presented incontrovertible data on how unnecessarily-high track voltage contributes directly to Motor Warming; but, otherwise, - nope.

[Cheater]

Guys,

Politics has no place in this thread, OK?

[Zippity]

Not even a teeny weeny bit?

[Duffy]

As an American and therefore unversed in global politics, I declare my comments were not specifically political but rather exclusively intended to address Zip's Al Gore quip; and, accepting that New Zealand has even less biz in Yank astuteness than I, I hereby officially stand by my "MOTOR Warming" statement. I mean, really - let's see AL get a Jail Door GP around a Kingleman. Honestly. How hot can the guy be?

Still, as regards all I really wanted to say on this thread - see reply #34. I jus' like bein' In It.

[The Number of]

I always thought it was BB King that designed the track.

[Zippity]

New Zealand does not have a blue King or any King track for that matter - YIPPEE!!!!!

[Rickard Five]

Gee, Richard, kinda hard on "Wing Racers", aren't you?

Nahh comes from a lifetime around them, and watching one track after another close because of them.

Perhaps those same wing racers are also the ones that helped keep the hobby alive while many others and retuning racers were off doing whatever it is that they've been doing all these years.

Well, we had 98 entries this week on the dragstrip, and seven on the King. we average approximately the same ratio every week. and as far back as the '70s that seams to be about the ratio! But ohh yeah wing cars have kept slot cars alive. Go ask PdL how much of the rent wing cars pay vs drag racing at Buena Park.

Perhaps folks with newer Gerding and other type tracks take a bit better care of them thus your confusion. Come to think of it, you recently had a Nats in your backyard on a non-Gerding King; were you there? I don't recall hearing your name.

You will never ever hear or see my name at an USRA Nats. Ohh and that same track got a Gerding King right after.

[Rickard Five]

All slot car races have those who would rather sit than marshal... which is why marshaling should not be optional.

Spoken like a true Wing car guy, Jim. Remember John La Rue's track in Plano (Slots-o-Fun). it always amazed me how Wing car guys (and it happens at other tracks) would expect and even DEMAND us drag racers come marshal their race. Not like any of them came and fetched our cars from the shutdown. it was always fun to come in on Saturday and find Leo Winters and the rest of the gang using our drag strip as their Pit and storage space.

That being said, I've only been down to your track once, but that white track was a blast with my Eurosport and Indy cars. Don't change it a bit.

[Vannerlee]

Well the original blue King was my favorite track in the '60s. I had a "travel" job with GM. Spent many hours after work at local slot tracks in the city of the visit. Detroit was a major stop. Boy, did that city have slot tracks. 300 foot monsters to that damn flat track in the window of the Groove. "Your lane at the Groove will be available in 90 minutes, we want your input, please continue to hold..."

Too many local tracks with the local advantage but boy did I get some schooling.

To the point of my post. R4 is underway on an original blue. Many of the racers also run on Gerding king tracks. I suspect that Ron has the data of many racers on both the original blue and a Gerding blue. G tracks are faster but how much?

My guess 0.30 faster. With the IRRA™ legal cars. Sidewinders?

Lee

[flem1959]

It's really about the delusion, wing car guys and USRA, the same people that are killing the hobby, have created that if you don't have the Gerding-built "King" you'll never have a big race.

Where do you come off making a statement like this?
Why is this allowed on this forum in the first place?
Look at the site of this year's Scale Nats.

[Cheater]

Mike,

Lets get this thread back on topic, please. Rickard has been asked privately to do the same.

[TSR]

Also gentlemen, the title of the thread is "who designed the King track" and "why is it popular", so maybe since no one knows who designed it and we have extrapolated the popularity, time to move on?

[Phil Smith]

I agree. Philippe, please try to stay subject in the future. You derailed this thread in the fifth post.

Bertil, I believe that the blue King was a successful design because it was probably the easiest of all the American Racing tracks to... drive. As I have been witnessing over the years, very few racers in the mid-range (the ones who truly keep the raceways in business by spending money) have little interest in racing on challenging tracks, and the King track races simply bring more racers. I could be wrong, but this is what I have observed, and it became really true recently with the new wave of Retro racing; we have three tracks at BPR in California: a "Kingleman", which is a smaller 90' track with lots of challenges. a "MTT" flat track that is also challenging, and the Gerding-built "King" that is a speed billiard table. Well, after a few years, we could not get racers to run the Kingleman, and we get a lot less racers on the MTT than on the King. Hence... It is a sad state of affairs of course because the Kingleman and the MTT are so much fun to drive, but they apparently require a driving discipline that few are ready to put up with I guess...

[TSR]

Damn right I did. That's because the second part of the question was:

And as AMCR had a lot of different tracks and designs, exactly what made the King so successful and copied all over the world? We had some of these also in Sweden back in the day, and still have some new as Hasse is still active here.

[johnford]

When I obtained the rights to use the name American Tracks again in the late '70s, I received a box load of documentation. Several months later, my T-shirt shop was broken into and lots of boxes of stuff were stolen. This is why I do not know who designed the first King track. I can take the blame for the first swoopy King track and Chubba takes the credit for the now familiar triangle legs.

Of course, the New American Slot Car company would have been nothing without a certain Swede we know of...

jf