146 replies to this topic

[Noose]

Same for me. Avoided the mob for lunch. LOL.

[Cheater]

Seems like a good time to insert one of my favorite sayings...

"The problems of too much business are preferable to the problems of too little business."

LOL!!

[Rick]

It's difficult with a static posted close time to change much. Perhaps next year, closing time could be two hours after the end of the final race of the day and it is what it is? That would give some the extra time they feel they want/need to dial in the car?

Lunch did not hold up the program at all. The only place I saw any area that would save some time was with not staring qualifying for Group 1 as soon as Group 2 was final, but this again would have only been a small amount of time pickup, nothing to really change the big picture.

I really liked the lane choice being added this year, that other systems used gives you no reward for better times and many even penalize the TQ person.

Coupe on Sunday would be the best alternative to the schedule. I was there Sunday for the A Main and looked around and saw only about eight racers left to view the top race of the weekend...

[Noose]

Rick,

Group 1 qualifying was first as Group 2 was going through tech. I know because being last to qualify I was making sure all cars for group 2 were teched so I could get out there. Then we took all the Group 1 cars back to impound and brought out the Group 2 cars. I don't think any time could been saved here as it was close to the limits allowed each day.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Looking at the time logs the longest delay between Group 1 and Group 2 was eight minutes . That was when the drivers names were accidentally entered in reverse order. Other than that it was less than five minutes which REALLY made the crew hustle to get the second group of cars in order. No time savings here. The drivers also cooperated very well in being ready to qualify when their time came. After giving myself a quick critique I don't think we could have saved more than 30 +/- minutes anywhere. Of course I will try and save that 30 minutes next year but will that make that big a difference? Big races take longer. I think that is the bottom line.

I think I will need to tweak the practice sessions to ensure turn marshals. I have been given some very good ideas over the last few months. Cindy and I are looking at how to improve lunches so everyone can eat food that hasn't been sitting in their pit for awhile. And I need to remember to write myself notes about certain things (like re-tech procedures) because, by the late hours in the day, my brain is running on fumes and turned to mush.

[Noose]

You wasted 30 minutes??? Tsk, tsk.

And for a brain that was mush you were pretty comprehensive. LOL.

[Matt Bruce]

After reading the thread and everyone's ideas I would have to agree with running F1 on Friday, Can-Am on Saturday, and Coupe on Sunday.

I think Can-Am is the premier event, and being in the main the last few years it would be only right it should receive the premier night which is Saturday. The bench race would be awesome as the pressure would be off basically for the rest of the event and the winners of Friday and Saturday could maybe get there awards at the party as well.

[Howie Ursaner]

F1 Friday, Can-Am Saturday, GT Sunday.

[JerseyJohn]

I'm in. I like it.

[NJ Racer]

Here is a vision of Noose as the mad Leprechaun Techmeister requesting your F1, Can-Am, or GTC on Sunday St. Paddy's Day next year.

[Hipsticker]

If the powers to be have the F1 on Friday and Can-Am on Sat I'll assure you I'll be there.. the six hours home on Sunday night by myself after being there three days was the biggest one thing I dealt with on deciding not to attend. I have a good friend who even offered me a room for the weekend, enough loot to cover the rest... but dang that ride home on Sunday night would just killed me... I'm only a field-filler but I sure like the Friday-Saturday combo you men have been discussing here.

I sure would have liked to watch that Can-Am A Main live... what a race... awesome even on the internet.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

You might get your wish, Gary. I have quite a while to decide but I am very aware of how hard those long drives home can be after a weekend of racing.

But this decision has to be made carefully. Whatever class I move to Sunday will probably suffer with lower entries. What about those who GT Coupe is their favorite?? Like I said, there is plenty of time to look at options.

And you are right. The A Mains were very cool to watch in person. Hopefully you can come next year.

[Ron Hershman]

but I am very aware of how hard those long drives home can be after a weekend of racing.

LOL, Mike. this gives me a chuckle... how many years ago was the last time you had a long and late drive home after a weekend of racing?

If you were to do this any time soon... that would "truly" be Retro for you... LMAO.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Remember, Ron, that I started a few years before you did.

But, you're right about recent history. My part of the business keeps me home a lot more than yours. I did enough looong drives for the memories to still be very clear however. One memorable trip was coming home from Louisville, KY, after a 41-hour "thrash and race" with two hours sleep. Adrenaline was good for about the first 30 minutes then it seemed that Columbus kept getting further and further away.

[Howie Ursaner]

I just want to mention that some people lost laps because they had worn braid.This does not usually happen. These lost laps were never given back.

[Cheater]

Howie,

You're saying that some cars did not trip the lap counter, right?

My well-known partner in crime seemingly had a big problem with this, I think.

[Howie Ursaner]

Yes, cheater, that would be correct. Like mine also.

[Noose]

I did, too. Lost 7 to 8 laps in the F1 race on orange. Jay Guard saw it at the end knowing the lap times I was turning and not de-slotting. Braid not worn or flat and counted on every other lane before and after. It is what it is and I wasn't moving up even if I had the laps. It just probably cost me a podium in that Main.

[Cheater]

It should be possible to confirm the problem using the race recordings, if that is deemed necessary. They're clear enough to use to hand-count a racer's laps IMO.

I know other raceways have occasionally run into this problem with dead-strips. Anyone know what remedial steps to try?

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Two people that I know of had possible laps not counted. In both cases it was discovered quite a bit after the fact. AND, in neither case would it have made an impact on the outcome of the top finishing positions. We could spend hours going through the history files to determine what may have been a missed lap(s) but would it be worth moving someone from 30th to 28th?? Noose I believe said he thought he also missed laps in F1. I don't remember looking at his car but one of the others had a burnt end on his braid. Many of you roll your car HEAVY on the front wheels which means the braid somewhat floats between the guide and the track. That makes braid condition much more important than, say, a wing car which rides ON the braid. And it is not our problem to correct for bad braid.

It is our problem to correct if it is the counting system. However, with literally hundreds of thousands of laps correctly counted and no pattern as to what lane etc. they are supposedly miscounted on, the odds are heavily in favor of it being NOT the counting system but the car. In fact, 99.9% of everyone who has raced here have NEVER claimed to have missed a lap. Howie's problem ended when he changed his braid. What does that tell you?

We can't just add laps to someone who claims to have missed laps. That is not fair to everyone else. Race directors also can't be expected to watch every car every lap. Carsteens system has an extremely low trigger threshold for counting. Our dead strip is on spec. Almost everyone has NEVER missed a lap. Show me where you did, and with no objection from the other racers, and we will add missed laps back. Harsh as this may sound, without solid evidence that the system has a problem, the burden is on the driver. It is the only way it can be.

[Ron Hershman]

I just want to mention that some people lost laps because they had worn braid.This does not usually happen. These lost laps were never given back.

You could say that......... prior to the R4-5 I know of only ONE car missing laps at a race at TT and that was Rick Maynard's Can-Am car several races ago. Not sure what his problem was, but it counted perfect the final two heats of that race.

Howie crashed pretty hard in the first heat of his semi, I had to "flatten" his braids as they were both "jacked" and "twisted" and were no where near perfect.

After that heat Howie mentioned he thought he lost laps as he only turned 31 laps. I told Eric to watch Howie's car and watch the lap counter which he did and after the 2nd heat Eric said Howie missed three laps on the counter and corrected the counter.

At this time I told Howie to put new braids in his car and as far as I know he did and his car never missed a lap after changing the braids.

My opinion, due to the twisted condition of his braids after his crash...... this is why he missed laps more than any other reason.

[Howie Ursaner]

I totally agree but i thought it was unusual to lose laps even with a burnt /bad braid. The lane total I noticed was 28 laps.

[John Miller]

. . . It is our problem to correct if it is the counting system. . .

I am confident that it's not the software, but an easy fix would be to raise the dead strip. It could be lifted .010 above the surface of the track and then the cars that roll hard on the fronts would count.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

I am confident that it's not the software, but an easy fix would be to raise the dead strip. It could be lifted .010 above the surface of the track and then the cars that roll hard on the fronts would count.

Considering the extremely small fraction of drivers that claim missed laps I don't think here is anything to fix.

[John Miller]

I was thinking it could help end any further questions about a faulty system.

I had my car not count at your facility at a prior race. My car was rolling hard on the fronts and when we removed a .010 spacer from the under the guide it cured the problem. Although, it changed the handling characteristics of the car.

Just trying to be reasonable, that's all. . .