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"Balls-Out California Choti Proxy" official rules


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#1 Jairus

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

Being that we have been discussing this race for a few months now, I decided that I should take the initiative and get the ball rolling and that makes me the Benevolent Dictator once again.

I don't care for a lot of rules since the basis for Thingies in the past specified few rules. But, you can't put the genie back in the bottle... therefore; the rules for "The Balls-Out" Thingie Proxy are longer than originally wished for. But somebody has to put some reins on you creative guys with the crazy ideas. These rules are now set in stone and will not be changed unless I messed up somewhere.

I suggest to anyone wanting to enter this race, that you build a car NOW and get it tested out before it's mailed in. Any problems acquiring the appropriate vintage parts, post a message in this thread and someone can give you a hand.

Rules:
  • Max chassis width 3.0" measured at rear axle. (Bodies can be up to 3.25" see body rule below)
  • Must have four rolling wheels with no minimum tire diameter specified.
  • Any axle diameter allowed, with 1/8" rear and 1/16" drop front axle ENCOURAGED!
  • No floppy front wheel mounts!
  • No part of the chassis may touch the track.
  • Inline motor mounting only.
  • Minimum .062" chassis clearance measured under the rear axle at start of race including gear.
  • Floppy drop arm or Iso or parameter frame with fixed tongue are all allowed.
  • Either floppy pan movement or plumber pan movement are allowed but not both.
  • No angled hinged pans.
  • No shaker or centerline hinge pans.
  • No loose pin tubes.
  • No parts or bits or technology manufactured after December 31, 1970, allowed. Only exceptions being consumables such as pick-up braids, motor brushes, and tire rubber, which mean: vintage wheels only. (If you need help finding wheels, ask someone.)
  • Any motor manufactured prior to December 31, 1970, allowed. The Mura C-can (two-hole) motor was available then, but was devoid of buss bars. So... If your "Green Can" motor is a later version (rear axle cut-out can allowed) then cut the buss bars off to create tabs please! (No Champion C-can motors allowed since those were not available until '72.)
  • Any motor modifications allowed as long as they are technologically provable to have been used prior to December 31, 1970.
  • Ceramic one-piece magnets ONLY! No neo, rare earth, or segmented magnets allowed.
  • Bodies: Repop "Choti" negative lift bodies are encouraged and required to be competitive. However, a few body makers have requested the right to make their own. As long as the bodies are in the spirit of the era, they will be allowed to compete. Shinoda bodies are likewise allowed but will probably not be competitive, so you have been warned. Anything that even LOOKS like a modern wing car body or chassis will not be allowed. If you make your own body, you MUST give other racers the option to purchase one of your bodies for their own entry in order for it to be considered legal for this race. Unless you can make your own body, I suggest you simply use one of the repop aero Choti deep dish bodies by Electric Dreams or One27Ray. (While not all of O2R's bodies are a vintage 3.25" wide, they are still legal to use as long as the rear tire track remains a vintage 3.0" wide)
  • One-piece body only, no added spoilers wings or air dams allowed.
  • Keep it in the spirit of the era please or do not enter.
  • $40 entry fee (updated Aug 12)
Update Aug 8 2012:
Cars should be post marked in the US no later than Monday September 24th to make it to Randy in time. (European times should be at least 7-10 days sooner) Address to be posted later.
All entries should be posted on the forum by September 10th to provide other entrants time to look them over.
Pictures should be that of:

1. Body on 3/4 view
2. Body on underneath shot of the frame
3. Body off upper 3/4 view or upper side view shot showing the chassis clearly


BY SEPTEMBER 10TH 2012!


This does not mean you can't continue to test and make minor changes such as adjusting weight and swapping tire rubber.

● Two races only to be held on two West Coast King tracks wnere the negative lift bodies were born. Proposed tracks will be Buena Park Raceway and Eddies Slot Car World
● Proposed/estimated entry fee to be $30 (Includes T-shirt and return postage.)
● Cars will not be serviced between races other than Zip-Grip.
● Time between races not expected to be more than 30 days or less than seven days.
● Cars will pass tech only once before the first race and then be checked for track clearance at the second race to ensure no part of the chassis touches. One set of tires should be able to run both races. No minimum clearance is required at the second track unless the chassis is threatening to touch.
● When a car breaks or stops during the race it is out of the challenge and is to be returned to the owner. So build them light and build them strong for the short duration of the two races.
● Highest number of cumulative laps from both races wins.
● Zip Grip will be the only thing to be applied to the tires prior to each race if needed.
● All entries must be posted in this thread with three pictures showing the chassis top and bottom and one with body attached, be considered for this challenge.
● Concours award to be presented and voted upon by members of Slotblog.net.
● Each racer is allowed two challenges to anyone else's entry. Challenges are only made against parts or technology that extend beyond the set date. (Example being a car that is posted with obvious Eurosport chassis design features.) Be prepared to have to prove your challenges or defend "innovations" in your own entry. Another racer can confirm a challenge without losing one of their challenges.
● If no valid challenges are waged, a car is then considered entered in the proxy. The Race director (me) has the right to accept or reject any entry I feel it does not comply with or is in the spirit of the rules. Likewise I can accept or reject any challenge if I feel it does not comply with the rules. (See the Benevolent Dictator Rule)
● Personal opinions are not challenges. You have to put in an official challenge for it to be acted upon.
● Only those who intend to enter can approve or challenge an entry.
● We are on the honor system here somewhat, but... you guys are the biggest innovators in slot-dom that I have ever seen and someone had to come up with a system to keep you nut cases in-check. Therefore the entrants themselves now become the watchdogs.

Update: the minimum clearance under rear axle has been increased to .062 so true your wheels accordingly (06.06.12).

What we want to see is a simple single rail in-line design with or without a floppy tongue and/or floppy pans with a Choti body in the spirit of the era. Let's make this a "motor race"for a change! Keep it simple and build a hot motor that can run two races without letting out the smoke. Build a damn modern chassis, just because "that's what you know", and it will not be allowed in this vintage thingie proxy race! [/rantoff]

Acceptable Chassis examples:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

I have not set a start date yet because the current Proxy is not ended. Hoping to have a new logo designed very soon and there will be T-shirts available for this race to both entrants and spectators. So do not wait, build a car and test, test, test!

There will be only two races in this series. However, we might be able to schedule later races if this catches on. However, this one is for only two races, BALLS-OUT, back to back with the winner receiving a custom-painted body and a special T-shirt with their name on it. Or something cool like that.

I think I have someone who will direct the Buena Park round but I need someone from the Vallejo area who is willing to be the race director for the Eddie's Slot World round. Volunteers?

If this works out well we could, after the cars have been serviced at home, plan a second round of two tracks in the East provided the tracks are still swoopy King tracks. Perhaps Chicagoland and Route 93?

The premise:
While popular opinion says that the end of the Thingie era was 1968, I do not believe that those who took part in the movement simply quit thinking about them and like all trends, there were most likely pockets of interest with builders still constructing and innovating just like today.

To this end I propose that you consider yourself standing in a slot shop in the spring of 1970 with a pocket full of paper route money while hanging on the bulletin board is a poster stating that there will be a thingie race scheduled for the coming summer and you have the time and skills to build the best and fastest thingie racer ever. You stroll over to the wall and gaze over the all the overstocked and on sale Choti "Negative Lift" bodies straight out of California. The display case is also full of Mura and Mabuchi rewound motors of all sizes and types. The Riggen, Twinn K, and Associated rubber tires are all fresh cut and ready for the track. You only need to pick what you want.

Of course you want the best guide available then so you start with that and pick up a couple Jet Flags to break the ice. Before you know it the clerk is ringing up the total. You pay for your purchases and he bags up the treasures. As you peddle your Stingray home the mind races with giddy excitement over the various super-lightweight chassis designs that are possible.

Build it light and keep it vintage!

Fire up those irons, guys!

Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#2 Gator Bob

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:15 PM

Very nice! I love the premise. :good:
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                            Bob Israelite

#3 Ron Hershman

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:33 PM

The Riggen, Alpha, and Associated rubber tires are all fresh cut and ready for the track.


The first "challenge" has been made... Alpha and their tires weren't around in 1970. ;) LOL.

ATTENTION... This is a joke!!!

#4 S.O. Watt

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:52 PM

I can just imagine what an event tee would look like...

... Balls-Out... ;)

Big brass ones?

Tom Hansen
Our Gang Racing Team
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Chassis By Hansen

I race and shop at Pacific Slot Car Raceway


#5 Jairus

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:55 PM

Okay, here is a preliminary list of possible participants based on comments from the "Thingies: What were they all about" thread.

Name entry number/name of car
Bob Israelite #1313
John Havlicek #00/Old Glory
Ray Price #8
Al Bond #4
Ben Kernan
Gus Kelley
Barney Poynor
John Dilworth
Don Siegel
Matt Sheldon
Howie Ursaner

Tony P #9
Ted Melton
Martin Windmill

John Austin #72/Wankkat
Glenn Asher #3
Edo Bertoglio Desmo
Clay Parker
Ray Fellows #66/Route-noda
Steve King #69/Studebaker
George Russell
David Cummerow #5
Bob Suzuki #99/Lovemachine
Mark Haas
Bill Fernald

Jairus Watson #42/Gúthwinë
Oscar Morales #16
Jens Graf
Rich Austin

Ed Blake
Tom Scott #19/Choterrari
Ralph Klose
Rick Bennardo
Steven Corneille

Jaak Beentjes #77/Red Devil
Brian McPherson #7/Pinky
Mike Kravitz
Mark Johnson #2
Eddie Lawley #6
Dave (aka Skidmarks)
David Siller (aka Maximo) #55/French
Dave Bradshaw

If anyone wants out, I'll remove their name. If anyone wants in, I'll add your name.

UPDATE May 31st 2012:
1. The track directors are now officially Randy Tragni for the Eddie's Slot World round and Barney Poynor for the Buena Park race in that order. The track directors can run the races as they see fit with whom-ever drivers they choose, as long as none have built an entry of course. Track surface and use of glue is totally up to the track directors as long as they treat all entries equally the use of glue or no glue will not be an issue!

2. We are setting preliminary dates for September 30th and October 20th. So there is plenty of time to build and test, test, test.

3. (Updated 8-26-12)While both tracks are King tracks and nearly the same in layout and length. The braid depth is slightly different. Randy confirmed that Eddie's track is .020.
Oscar has reported that B.P. braid is recessed .003 to .008.

Those with an ISO or drop arm need not worry at all so build accordingly and wisely.

4. According to Philippe, no heat sinks would be legal due to the dates they became the norm of 1975. These are the only thing that's legal and were used by Mura on the "B" can starting in 1969.
Posted Image
Requires two, one each side under the brush plate.
(Sorry if anyone spent a lot of time cutting up some heat sinks.)

Update Aug 16:
5. Regarding guides, lead wire clips are allowed even-tho they were not widely utilized in 1970. Guide nuts however are discouraged in lieu of Dubro brass set screw collars. These have been available all over the world since the 60's. Of course Classic brass weights with set screw is strongly encouraged. Or the standard of the era... the #3 screw and two washers is also encouraged if you want to go light.

Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#6 The Bugman

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:58 PM

Mr J,

I will have a 100% legal thingie chassis ready...

I'd like to take part in these two races, too. :sun_bespectacled:
Oscar Morales
8/16/49-9/18/13
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#7 Cheater

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:58 PM

Twinn-K?

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#8 Jairus

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 02:22 PM

Thank you, Greg!

Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#9 S.O. Watt

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 02:55 PM

I'll have to think about this one, and check to see what old stuff I have around. I never built one back in the day as we didn't run them at the SoCal tracks I ran at.

Now if it were hardbody stockers...

Tom Hansen
Our Gang Racing Team
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I race and shop at Pacific Slot Car Raceway


#10 MantaRay

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 03:11 PM

Jairus,

The rules you posted were very well-conceived. The challenge concept is very interesting...

Me like...
Ray Price
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#11 macman

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:03 PM

I like it!!!
Ben Kernan
Formerly of SARN

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#12 The Bugman

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:08 PM

Now if it were hardbody stockers...


A hardbody stocker... :sarcastic_hand: those would be real slugs, compared to what those thingies are gonna be doing. :sun_bespectacled:
Oscar Morales
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#13 macman

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:09 PM

Will a 26D motor bracket work for a 16D???

BTW I have NOS Cobra 26D motor brackets if anybody is interested.
Ben Kernan
Formerly of SARN

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#14 Jairus

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:14 PM

Ben,

It won't unfortunately. The screw holes are too far apart and depending on the motor, the bearing hole might be too big.

Try HERE.

They are for the A-can, B-can, C-can, and any Mabuchi 16D you care to screw to it.

Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#15 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:30 PM

I would like to state and ask that the race happen after July to give everyone time to build the "perfect" 'Balls-Out Thingie and test different designs... Also many have summer plans already in place and we do not want any slot car widows suing you for taking up the family time!

Ralph Klose has asked me to build one for this race so please add his name to the mix. I even have some beautiful vintage arms that may have to get used...

May I suggest that a proven vintage arm get one lap at each race extra for their total???

Barney Poynor
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Hello my name is Barney and I was... I am addicted to glue, magnets, and wings... I have been clean and sober years now... NOW I'm hooked on 1/32 club track racing! Dang!
 

"Even if you're on the Right Track, you'll get run over if you just sit there!"

If you remember
screw-on braid, motors that look like padlocks, that dang fuse wire in Cox controllers, "hand" painted bodies, the very first can motors from Mabuchi, and the smell of wintergreen then you are OLD!... like me!

Enjoy life! Race Slot Cars and read SlotBlog!


#16 Pablo

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:48 PM

Barnmaster, I think you should get a one lap advantage for being a good guy. :)
Paul Wolcott

#17 Gator Bob

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 09:51 AM

I can just imagine what an event tee would look like...

... Balls-Out... ;)

Big brass ones?


Caution - "entering the no swing zone"

Another ticket written in South Carolina
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#18 Jencar17

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:31 AM

Would these motors be legal?

12052012574.jpg

12052012565.jpg

12052012567.jpg

12052012568.jpg

12052012569.jpg

12052012570.jpg

12052012573.jpg

:victory:
Jens Graf

#19 Pablo

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:57 AM

Jens, Jairus is out for a while, allow me to have a stab at it.

First, the buss bars are not legal. Jairus mentions cutting them in the rules, if needed.

Second, I belive the cans with rectangular slots are not legal, due to > 1970.

Third, the two-hole cans are all good.

Fourth, the motor with yellow wires appears to have a > 1970 endbell.

Other than that, yeah they are legal.

Wait until Jairus chimes in before you decide if and exactly where to cut those buss bars.

Hope I'm right and hope that helps. Until the master returns. :D
Paul Wolcott

#20 Jencar17

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 01:06 PM

Paul, thanks for your help!
Jens Graf

#21 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 02:49 PM

Barnmaster, I think you should get a one lap advantage for being a good guy.


Thanks but you just don't know me, Paul! :sarcastic_hand: :crazy:

Yes, Jens, some of the stuff is later and the coned endbell on the one is a '90s design I did for Woody and Dee before they sold Mura.

Coned endbell.jpg

Barney Poynor
"BRONCO" BARNEY
Team CORT!

Hello my name is Barney and I was... I am addicted to glue, magnets, and wings... I have been clean and sober years now... NOW I'm hooked on 1/32 club track racing! Dang!
 

"Even if you're on the Right Track, you'll get run over if you just sit there!"

If you remember
screw-on braid, motors that look like padlocks, that dang fuse wire in Cox controllers, "hand" painted bodies, the very first can motors from Mabuchi, and the smell of wintergreen then you are OLD!... like me!

Enjoy life! Race Slot Cars and read SlotBlog!


#22 Ron Hershman

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 05:39 PM

Third, the two-hole cans are all good.

Fourth, the motor with yellow wires appears to have a > 1970 endbell.


Well, there are two motors shown with yellow lead wires. The one with the Mura buss bars is a "korrect" end bell... just dyed a different color.

That yellow enbell is the same as any endbell found on any two-hole Mura can no matter what year... that is an original tooling endbell EXCEPT for the color it was dyed by at Mura.

At one time...

White dyed endbells were used on Group 12 and Wasp motors.

Yellow dyed endbells were used on the Intl 15 motors.

Orange dyed endbells were used on Group 20 motors.

Black and Green dyed endbells were used on Group 7 motors.

Yes, Jens, some of the stuff is later and the coned endbell on the one is a '90s design I did for Woody and Dee before they sold Mura.


Errr... ummmmm... that is a Pro Slot '90s endbell on the correct two-hole can and YES, Barney is a hell of a nice guy. ;)

#23 Gator Bob

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:15 PM

White dyed endbells were used on Group 12 and Wasp motors


Also white Wasp was sold by Parma as the Womp-Womp motor.
The Mura Super Wasp was white.
The GR-12x came with a dark red endbell.

I have seen them in purple but I think these were dyed by Camen - these are drilled for solid copper wire feed thru, the predecessor to "buss bars".

Vintage Open Motor.

IMG_0769.jpg
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#24 Craig

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:16 PM

I'm in if the date will be set for after July like Barney has requested. It gives us all time to get chassis built and tested, motors built and burned in, and rebalanced and all that.

Sounds like fun.

Craig Correia

Team IRD

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#25 Pablo

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:27 PM

The endbell I was referring to when I said "yellow wire" was the second photo. Sorry... Ron pointed out there is more than one motor with yellow wires. :)
Paul Wolcott





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