69 replies to this topic

[MSwiss]

Sorry, I probably didn't state my question properly...

Sometimes, the rail that connects the motor bracket connects from the outermost position, with the other two rails connecting to the inside of that first rail connected to the motor bracket. The one connecting the fore piece will be connected by the third rail, which is innermost of the three. (post #15)

Then on others z-rails, the rail connecting the motor bracket is the innermost of the three --- with the other two rails moving to the outside of the one connected to the motor bracket. (post #2)

I'm just wondering if one method is better than another, or is it six of one/half dozen of the other?

Does the question make better sense this time? (You'd never know I write for a living, would you?)

I think they are still a relatively new design, so until a lot of guys have 6 of them in their box,
it's hard to say if one technique is superior to the other.

[S.O. Watt]

I've noticed that some z-rails connect to the motor bracket from the outside of the rail configuration, while others connect on the inside. What difference does it make?

IMHO, so far just a way to use various different sized brackets and nose pieces.

One can, with a .050 thick motor bracket, use combos of a 1" nose and a 1" motor bracket, a 3/4 nose, 1" MB, 1" nose, 3/4" MB. Depending on the combo, it will lengthen (or shorten) the rails a tad bit.

Will they handle different? Maybe, due to minute weight balance differences, but I think the flex can be controlled to be virtually the same on all.

I'm with Mike, the jury hasn't decided yet (if they can)

[MSwiss]

I'm with Mike, the jury hasn't decided yet (if they can)

Yeah Tom,
You need to create a little man to sit in the middle of the car to see what the hell
is really goin' on, when the car is runnin' around. LOL

[Hipsticker]

COOL FACTOR 100

[SlowBeas]

I only wish I had time to build five more and spend lots of time at the track.

Unfortunately, I've only built my first --- a Can-Am with rails similar to those in MantaRay's pic above (connecting to the motor bracket on the inside). I love the way it twists. I drove a z-rail that Don Weaver had built and thought it handled incredibly well. It cornered effortlessly.

So, I'll take my newly constructed z-rail to Abbeville this Saturday for its very first workout. I have high hopes for it, but again I reiterate: I'm no Pablo!

Thanks for all the insights, guys.

[Rick Moore]

Jim, regarding your question about the configuration of the rails, that’s what I was talking about in my obscure reference in post 10:

“The one thing I have found is there is no difference between medial-to-lateral versus lateral-to-medial layout of the rails (other than which fits the desired design better).”

In general it is easier for me to attach other chassis components when I use the medial-to-lateral arrangement (that translates to first wire from motor box being medial relative to the last wire attaching to the chassis front being lateral; “inny-to-outty” would be another moniker). However there are times when the lateral-to-medial layout is advantageous, and in those cases I’ve built it accordingly. At least, this has been my experience with the “z-railed” chassis I’ve built.

(However, I admit I’ve never made it through the jury selection process either… )

[Tex]

Yes, the components you use to build with can affect the rail design. I've been using wide motor brackets lately. There is NO room for a rail to go outside the motor bracket(rear tires would rub). So, I have to solder that rail to the inside surface of the motor bracket which, in turn, dictates that the inner Z-rail must be soldered to the nose piece/guide tongue assembly.

[Noose]

I have a sports car one. What I have found is that from the dead man to the lead on the car is perhaps one of the best I have ever driven. It's down the straight that I see that it scrubs speed. Some adjustments were made to add some "stiffness" to it by soldering the rails together slightly in 4 spots - 2 front and 2 rear. This helped a lot.
Has anyone else noticed this?

[MantaRay]

I have also used John Millers idea of soldering a 1/2" pc of tubing to reduce movement of the up/down stops.

The inside/outside of the rails is depends on the width of the nose and the motor bracket.

Example..... 1“ front, 3/4" motor bracket....3/4" front, 1" motor bracket

Many other combos work well....

[Rick]

I have a sports car one. What I have found is that from the dead man to the lead on the car is perhaps one of the best I have ever driven. It's down the straight that I see that it scrubs speed. Some adjustments were made to add some "stiffness" to it by soldering the rails together slightly in 4 spots - 2 front and 2 rear. This helped a lot.
Has anyone else noticed this?

Noose a Zee Rail chassis has rather free rotational movment and a reason why it will work well thru the back half or a more technical track but your observation on the straights sounds valid, when the torque is pounded to the chassis, it would be apt to roll and that would slow down forward movement while doing it. It also Probably will react slower omn accelration out of every corner, just a tad. I hope that is plain to understand. There is probably an optimum tradeoff in wire size to make it the best of both worlds out there. While we are down to the point of looking for 100th's of a second you have to look at the overall picture today..............

[MSwiss]

It's down the straight that I see that it scrubs speed.

It didn't scrub off much speed on Rick Davis's F1 car at the ROC.

That track is all speed and he won.

What probably doesn't hurt him, he has done a terrific job on his up/down stops.

I think they prevent excessive flex.

[Rick]

[SlowBeas]

Any pics available of that F1? I'd be curious to see how he uses the stops.

[Rick Moore]

Hey Joe,

Back when I first started building chassis with indirect main rails, or “z-rails”, I purposely built two chassis of virtually the same design where one had a direct main rail and the other had the indirect main rails:

The 1305-C, with direct main rails:



The 1306-C, with indirect (z) main rails:



I did a fair amount of testing of these chassis between each other, because at that time I was trying to find any handling characteristic differences between the two rail systems. At no time did I notice any speed scrubbing off on the 1306-C versus the 1305-C in the main straight or bank on either the King or the 200’ Hillclimb I was playing, er, I mean testing them on (at JSCG; or on any other subsequent King at ASR IMS or the Viper Pit). So while I do not doubt your observation, I have just not seen it for myself with my own builds.

Some design notes (as a result of trial and error on earlier designs): I do not allow the indirect main rails to “open” laterally, instead limiting this by keeping them framed within adjacent chassis components. Also, I use spring wires and up-stops instead of down-stops on the free-floating front of the indirect main rails to keep them within the plane of the chassis; the free-floating rear of the indirect main rails do have down-stops, but these also have spring wires resisting their upward motion.

Hey, just some more info to mull over… fun, right?

Rixkzzzz

[MSwiss]

Any pics available of that F1? I'd be curious to see how he uses the stops.

Here you go;

http://slotblog.net/...efit-sano-dave/

Don't stare at it too long.

It's so pretty, it'll make you turn blind.

[SlowBeas]

Very nice. Almost makes me ashamed for my own craftmanship! Obviously, my design is not as intricate...not as thoroughly engineered. Mine just.....is.

[Rick]

Take a good look at Rick Davis' Zee Railer F1, Rick has a lot more going on than the Zee Rails. He probably understands much more than us mortals on chassis building. Look at some his CanAm cars! He's a master builder, second to NONE. His builds are more intricate than most...............

[MSwiss]

Jim,
You must of taken my advice and didn't look at Rick D's chassis too long.

You apparently can still see well enough to use the keyboard. LOL

[Rick]

Feel better now Herr Swiss?

[MSwiss]

?????

please explain.

[MSwiss]

Feel better now Herr Swiss?

You need to hook up a breathalyser to your keyboard.

[Greg VanPeenen]

Mike,

Ricks cars are brass and wire euro sport cars. He is a master builder and always has been.

But we are forgetting that the cars are only part of the Rick Davis equation. The man is the equal of Ron Hershman when it comes to hustling a slot car around the track. When he gets in the Zone he is a machine. At the Race of champions, Can-Am qualified 17th finished 2nd , F-1 qualified 5th finished 1st. For number 1 overall and the ring..

Rick is the complete package designer/builder, driver, racer, and all around nice guy.

Greg V.

[Rick]

10-4 Greg. He's also one of nicest guys you'll run into...............

[MSwiss]

Greg,
Are you saying you are impressed with Rick Davis's package? LOL

[Greg VanPeenen]

Very funny Mike.

But as long as I have known Rick I have no interest In any info on that package.Thank you very much.

Just trying to give the guy a well deserve complement and Carrot Top shows up with a wise crack