174 replies to this topic

[Ron Hershman]

I know one thing for sure... the feat would never be accomplished with an FK motor... LMAO.

[Hworth08]

A (slow) Wing 12 car can turn a King in 2.8 seconds, That 37.74 actual MPH.

The same car on a banked oval might well average 45 MPH because of four less turms per lap. If so that car would travel the 1,200 miles in only 26.66 hours.

The formula to determine ACTUAL MPH is:

Lap Length (in feet) divided by Lap Time (seconds) times 3600 divided by 5280.

Some of the oval racers might can compare oval speeds with road course speed using the same car and find a comparison.

[TSR]

Go back and read the article.
Other parts were replaced.

Mike,
Parts were replaced on one of the three cars after it crashed heavily and one big chunk of a rear tire fell off. On the same car (one of the two Lolas), the crash damaged the spur gear, so both gears were changed.
Of the other two cars, one was totally intact at the end (the Ford GT roadster) while the other Lola completed the run with a slightly bent axle.
All three cars ran totally trouble free as far as their motors, and each used 7 sets of braided contacts and wore out 5 guides, likely due to the roughness of track connections on this quickly custom built, one-time use track.

But so far, no one attempted to beat this record... would it no be fun trying, and calling the Guinness Book people?

I know one thing for sure..... the feat would never be accomplished with a FK motor.....LMAO

I do not see why not? The one we had in the 48-hour TSR car still had plenty of brush left. Speed on a banked oval could be enough... you run these motors at the voltage they are supposed to be run at and they last.
Also a well prepped PS mini motor could do the trick in the right chassis with fairly hard silicone tires and as Mike suggested, minimal down force, just enough to keep the car planted.

But so far and over the past 12 years, no one has made an attempt even when I offered a grand in cash as an incentive. .

[MSwiss]

But so far, no one attempted to beat this record... would it no be fun trying, and calling the Guinness Book people?

When Chicagoland broke the 24 hr. record for distance, it never got recognized. Not sure if the guy behind organizing it dropped the ball or Guinness wouldn't accept it.

It was such a "Bad Vibe Fest", I didn't really care.

As far as the Champion record, where exactly is it recognized and as what?

Bottom line, the secret is more the track than the car.

[MSwiss]

But so far and over the past 12 years, no one has made an attempt even when I offered a grand in cash as an incentive.

Does the offer still stand?

If so, I might just try it on the King.

[Gator Bob]

A (slow) Wing 12 car can turn a King in 2.8 seconds, That 37.74 actual MPH.

The same car on a banked oval might well average 45 MPH because of four less turms per lap. If so that car would travel the 1200 miles in only 26.66 hours.

The formula to determine ACTUAL MPH is:

Lap Length (in feet) divided by Lap Time (seconds) times 3600 divided by 5280.

Some of the oval racers might can compare oval speeds with road course speed using the same car and find a comparision.

The track is such a HUGE factor....
using that formula ....On Greg Walkers 110' Daytona track Retro Stock Cars and FCR Dirt Late Models are going 30 MPH ....yup... lol

[TSR]

As far as the Champion record, where exactly is it recognized and as what?

Bottom line, the secret is more the track than the car.

Mike,
It was a demonstration by Champion, a lot more than a simple publicity stunt because the results were clearly witnessed by many at the time, and documented by a clear report in at least two unconnected publications that showed the tear-down and the kept records in detail. No, they did not call the Guinness in 1966, but it is nonetheless quite an amazing feat.
I am not putting any money up anymore, I am now retired and have a blown Offy to fix, and that will take my slot car money for a while. However, since someone raised the Champion record of sort (and no one had established such a record before they did), I would think that it would be something fun to do, after all it has been 46 years!
The track was not that special, and was probably not that well put together. I would think that a smooth Gerding King would be as suitable, but there are also plenty of modern ovals with moderately banked turns that would be suitable. Investment-wise, all it would take is a single car with a single, well conceived motor, and a set of very hard silicone tires, a few boiled guides with quick-change options and a well conceived chassis and body combination. And it is much easier to get the Guinness guys to either send their own guys or select qualified witnesses.
As far Champion and the car they used, if you have any opportunity some day to drive a car with a genuine NOS "707", you will be amazed by its straight line performance for a 46 year old motor, and let's not even mention its endurance. The very first "pro-racing" event in the history of the company was an enduro in which once again, a dead-stock 707 was used to win the thing without any incident. Here is a short extract from my new book:

Champion enters the fray
The Atlanta based Champion Company became involved in serious racing in 1966. On August 11, the newly formed works team entered an enduro called the "High Point 600". This four-day affair took place in High Point, NC at the Family Hobby Center. The factory sponsored team competed against other Champion equipped teams and lost to two of them. Or did they? The Morelli Racing Team from Rockville, MD came on top as fast qualifier as well as race winner with 14400 laps accomplished in 51-1/2-hour, covering just over 600 miles with their Champion "707" powered Chaparral that used a standard Champion frame down to the stock tires. The Tom Thumb Trackmasters team of Falls Church, VA, was in second place with a Champion "705" powered car. The Champion "707" team was in 3rd place ahead of the Champion "507" team. The first five teams used Champion motors, and as the winning car was torn down it was found that the motor brushes were only down by 25%. 12 pretty young ladies competed for the Miss High Point 600 title at the event, the lovely Ann Hill justifiably winning from the also lovely Jean Boylen and Marta Smith.
The Concours d'Elegance had been won by the beautiful Porsche Carrera entered by the Tom Thumb Trackmasters, while second place was awarded to the car entered by the Grand Prix Racing Team of Upper Saddle River, NJ.

[Gator Bob]

A bit of drift... do tell...

......Grand Prix Racing Team of Upper Saddle River, NJ.

Home track -
Highway Hobby House
RT-17n
Upper Saddle River, NJ

It is a bit of a fog but I watched those guys as an 8 year old. "Dad, I want to grow up to race like them".
Globe Screamers, Champion and Dyna were very popular motors at that location.

[Rick]

Since there are no records in Guinness I guess any attempt would be the benchmark for now. Me and Jim Bliss had talked about doing this in 1998 but never went thru with it. I was under the impression, at the time, that you could even rebuild the motor but it would be on the clock and the endurance and distance would be for 24 hours?............... We had planned on using an Int15 car and motor.

[MSwiss]

The below is the record we went after and beat.
When we did it, I thought they had used some sort of 1/24 Eurosport car
but apparently it was 1/32nd.

IMO, pretty impressive distance if it was a twisty flat track.

http://www.guinnessw...hours-132-scale

[MSwiss]

BTW, last night, the JK Rental car made it to 16 hrs. of running without any replacements.

[TSR]

Mike and Rick,
I am convinced that it would not take much to beat the numbers. My point is that it would not be so easy to do it within the same parameters, I.E. no motor change or repair and on a single set of tires, with the only parts replacement being braided contacts and guides.
It is obvious to anyone that a modern slot car will bury those old Champion heavy cars, but can a modern car outlast the old, obsolete Champion car? There is the question.
And a heck of a challenge in my opinion...
So who wants to do it?

[MSwiss]

It could be done easily.

Almost effortlessly on a track like the one Champion used.

Send that $1,000 for Greg Wells to hold and I'll do it in a heartbeat.

[TSR]

Mike,
I no longer have money for playing with slot cars, sorry!
Someone will have to do it on their own, or leave the Champion record standing for eternity.

[Gator Bob]

BTW, last night, the JK Rental car made it to 16 hrs. of running without any replacements.

Mike, Is the Rental car still 'good to go' ?

Who has the fastest oval in the country? Probably the place to try this.

[MSwiss]

See post #61.
It's still running 7.1's , 7.2's.

I only get a chance to run it when the King is available/ no rentals are going on.

A Birthday party yesterday put a kink in my plans to get it up to 18 hrs.

I'm guessing the braid will be the first thing to fail.
If the car starts stuttering around, I'll go ahead and change it.

As far as non-braid, my guess will be the spur.
Jerry has come up with some killer 48P pinons.
The one on the car is wearing phenomenal but I think the plastic spur teeth will eventually get too thin.
I would normally tighten up the lash but I want to see how long it will go as I received the car from Jerry.

[Phil Smith]

If you change out parts a they were out, all you're really doing is seeing long the motor will last. I think Parma's record is for a motor, not a car.

[MSwiss]

Parma 's record?

What are you talking about?

"The Further Adventures of Dallas Phil commenting about something he knows nothing about".

[Rick]

It appears that 1200 miles and 80 hours are the record? So if one could beat those numbers they would be the new record holder. Is there any documentation of this task anywhere to read about, from back in the day?..............I would like to read the story.

[Phil Hackett]

5110 laps on each lane of a standard King track will beat the 1200 miles.... at 4 seconds average per lap... each heat = 5.7 hours. 5.7 x 8 = 45.5 hours....

The reason to run each lane is to spread the wear out on the track. Somehow running 41,000 laps on one lane might cause some wear...

I would run the challenge on as big a figure-8 as I could because it would wear the tires more evenly.

[MSwiss]

I would run the challenge on as big a figure-8 as I could because it would wear the tires more evenly.

 

I would go with a 1,200 mile long dragstrip.

I'm guessing it would wear them even less.

[Phil Hackett]

Yes, the winning car's Deathstar ran the last 22 hours. They changed to it at the end of the second one-hour heat, in search of a faster motor.

It used up about half its brushes, IIRC, Golddust.

I ran a 24-hour enduro with a bone stock 16-d that lasted 19 hours. The only reason it was changed was for insurance of finishing the race. Tear down showed very little wear.... with small wire on the arm, reasonable timing, Cobalt (Neo?) magnets, proper gearing and not having "qualifying" power I'm sure a motor can last more than 80 hours.

[Gator Bob]

I would run the challenge on as big a figure-8 as I could because it would wear the tires more evenly.

sounds right ... Check with a chiropractor first....

[TSR]

It appears that 1200 miles and 80 hours are the record? So if one could beat those numbers they would be the new record holder. Is there any documentation of this task anywhere to read about, from back in the day?..............I would like to read the story.

Rick,
You need to pay attention... please read post # 12...

[MSwiss]

Champion used 3 cars, all covered the distance of 1200 miles. They did so I assume to hedge their bets in case of catastrophic failure of a single one.
So to be fair, 3 cars should be allowed, as long as one covers the distance plus a margin allowed by the Guinness to set a new record...

I reread the article and maybe I missed it, but I'm didn't read the part (exactly) where all 3 cars went 1200 miles.
Maybe it spells it out more clearly in the beginning of the article in Model Car Science, but that's missing
in the link provided in post # 12.

With the asst. failures, IE,1 bent axle, one chunked tire, one bad gear, it seems like a coincidence that they all would of went 1200 miles unless one of the cars waited up for the others and they finished sort of like the Ford GT 40's at Lemans in '66.

Furthermore, I wouldn't stake my life on that track having 3 lanes.