57 replies to this topic

[Ralph Thorne]

Very sorry to hear this.

 

Do you plan on rescheduling this event?

[Rick]

I hope you will reschedule not on top of an ORS race and we will do out best to be there............

[DGRacer]

We are still debating about a reschedule. It's pitifull when there only 7 guys show up for this kind of race. If we don't have at least 14 committed people going to show up we will cancel all future events. The future of Mason Diixon is in danger. We really have no idea what to do. It's been going on too long now. If its me or the Government that's the problem then go ahead and blast us. Because really I am clueless.

I know I have tried to be fair at tech. I send Bill and Randy back to fix their cars more than anyone else.

Maybe it's just bad geography. Really I don't know.

[Pop's boys]

Dale, I don't think the poor turnouts have anything to do with the Gov't or tech but more likely just not enough local interest in retro racing. When MD came to Sheaves we had a good turnout and I believe that could grow there as Jeff has a good base of racers to begin with.

 

Many of the racers who competed with MD a little over a year ago when you first came to Valley Slotcars for some reason or another have just taken a break, moved, found another hobby or just plain quit racing altogether. That is not limited to just retro racing as many of those racers from our area no longer compete in any classes of racing. We need to contact these racers as well as those we know who have never run retro before and invite them to a race and even loan them cars to drive. We might even think about an invitational where the diehard MD racers only participation would be to help new guys and show them that it ain't rocket science to building and setting up a decent retro car. 

 

I believe retro racing will grow at each race at Sheaves as Jeff has welcomed it and has started a monthly Saturday retro race and even included a Stock Car retro class which will be run for the first time tomorrow. Scheduling more races there will increase the number of racers in MD retro.

 

There is a good number of racers who compete at Mimi's in other classes, we need to contact those guys and invite them to our events.

 

As our base increases and their interest grows we might be able to get the 14 racers we hope for at most of our events.

[Jeff Sheaves]

Dale, it's been a strange season, we had more racers in the summer month's then we have had this winter. We even dropped our Thursday night race schedule to narrow down options and try to get everyone one in on a single day. So when you can figure it out let me know !!

[Hipsticker]

Jeff is going to start racing retro coupes on "the beast"and IRRA stock cars on the tri-oval every 2 weeks ...in MY opinion the group is going to grow in the next month.Jeff has a base group now racing the flexi classes and ill bet more of them will add a retro coupe at least in there box soon ,,and right now a few are building ones ...there is no base of racers [well 6] in mason dixon ,,agian i ll repeat what Dale said ..i dont know why..There are cotributing factors the inderectly keep new racers away ..First and formost is cost..no matter waht anyone says it costs more to start up ,maintain and race a retro car....now a guy can compete for less but to run fast it costs time and effort and money.a man that can buy 10 PD motors at 50.00 a piece is gonna have a better motor than a man that buys 1...they have more motors to find a better one...the guy that can fill his box with 4 different compounds of tires in 3 hub sizes ,is gonna have more choices and again go faster...the guy that has 5 chassis to choose from ....you get the idea..and thats fact...not just made up chit..AND it takes a keen sense to adjust ,drive and put the right pieces on them to go fast .i In this class, you cannot "buy" a winner ,,you have to make it one..and its tough.So if a newby gets all his car done and practices his butt off ,and cant run up front before long hes gone...aint waisting anymore money .Thats where a lot of cars and  parts come from for sale on here and e-bay...they just give up..i know of 2 right now that just give up after spending a small fortune on retro stuff....so were trying to get new people to to come race the absolute hardest type of slot cars to win that there is ..AND were gonna race against guys that have been doing it for 30 + years? ...now theres a select "few" that can pick up on it ,and can really drive good..but we need more "b-mainers"  [like me..lol] theres not many that will do it very long and if i didnt believe i was having fun and getting mayby a little better all the time i would have went R/C racing by now ...but im only one cat and we need more .Until theres a tire rule,a cheap motor and a good handling chassis for under 100 bucks ,,were bout stuck with us thats here now...notice there were 12-14 guys racing the nastruck 4 in. class today..i could build 3 winners for price of one of my retros..what dat tell ya?..oh it was 15 bucks to race 3 times today..20 bucks counting my pass..at the fall brawl for 4 days and 3 classes my entry and pass bill was $120.00...for me to go to mimis 45 miles away for 2 classes its 32.00 plus it tales 20 in gas.55.00 ..not counting the 2 fresh rebuilds [35.00] 2 new sets of tires[30.00]  ..welp ill be at the next race so i hope more come.but higher up people are going to have to do something or there wont be anymore people than what we have now...

[Noose]

Hip you raise excellent points. Now remember many of those fast guys have been racing retro close to 5 years and over that time "stuff" does get accumulated such as frames, motors, etc. I am one for sure and that is why I loan out cars to the newer folks or to someone who may not have a car for a certain class.

New comers can get into retro on a less expensive basis but of course when their own OCD kicks in they will get more "stuff".

It's pretty much like that in any hobby.

As for the cost off the races, well the big events like the Fall Brawl, etc. are going to cost more because it is a longer event and raceways do have an overhead yanno. Getting a local thing going takes some dedication for sure. It can be done.

[John Streisguth]

How about a JK super spec class?  You can get the chassis RTR for $80, use the FK motors at $12 each.   It might be a good way to start getting people in, and those chassis handle really well, as evidenced by Noose taking a podium at SAL 2 weeks ago with one (but built by Tony P)

[Hipsticker]

wow this is good ..some people are responding ,,and there not bashing me ...thanks ...John has what i feel is the best solution ..make a jk class,falcon motor ,,thats the cheapest way to build "a retro car" that will actually go fast without being a veteran set-up man..i ran within millionths of the track record with one yestrday[slightly modified]..but ive seen men poduim with them a regional series events on here before. So they do handle stock.

Now ,are is the governmnet going to race in a "flexi"retro race?  I absolutly know for fact at least one wont,i get heck racing a flexi retro now im sure they wont race in them....ok were back to zero...

Mayby Jeff will see that noose and john have suggestions here and try it down at his track.

I better not post anymore before i get hollered at by somebody ..im in the middlw where i enjoy racing with all series and like all the guys in both.

[slotcarone]

 Hip you have all good points except the one about getting in to RC.  For a beginners class I suggest a JK pan chassis class using the original kit and GT Coupe rules.  These are great handling cars that can be used in Can Am too.  In any competitive hobby the oldies are always going to outshine the newbies.  The difference with most Retro racers is that they are willing to help the newbies out!!!

[John Streisguth]

Mike, the newer JK chassis is available as an RTR off the shelf, which is why I suggested it.  And you can put a puppy dog in one and be competitive.

 

It's a tough thing to build up a series from scratch.  With Retro East, since it was so new everyone had a fairly level playing field, and it has snowballed from there.  I think a big art of the problem is that M-D has lost a bunch of track the last 2 years (DT Hobbies, TKO etc) and with them the "local" group of racers.  If you look at Retro East, there is a core group that goes to every race, but eash raceway has probably 6 -8 racers that only race when the series come to their track. We are lucky to have so many raceways within 2 hours of each other.

[slotcarone]

I have not had any first hand experience with the new JK chassis but that sounds like a good idea to use the RTR.

[John Streisguth]

Take a look at the race report from Slots A Lot, you'll see Noose's GTC.  I drove it at Port Jeff and the thing drove like it was on rails.

[Hipsticker]

that is correct John..retro east is very good right now and as you said its been together for years,the core group are all up there ,etc ..The thing is ,another group can grow just as yours has up there ,only in a different area ,thats what Jeff is trying to do down there.

Theres one thing people want to do..people want to be where others are...people want to go "where its happening" "the big event" you get the idea...so when some gather,more will gather..it snowballs and soon becomes "where its at"  So right now Jeff is gathering as many as possible to show others this retro is a cool deal...even if theres 5-7 people having a race ,the others that are there on other tracks racing ,practicing the flexi cars become interested...hmm whats those things?  Man i want one of those! As soon as this catches on down there all the flexi guys [theres a bunch] will have retros too in there box...by racing every 2 weeks it will grow....just have to keep it going and not loose intrest ..This man has a fine facility and 3 very good tracks all under one roof ..well 4 if you count drag cars ..lol   there was up to 60 dragers comming every wed night to race...it will pick up when it gets warmer out.

[John Streisguth]

Dale:

Taking a look at your schedule, I notied that you basically have 3 classes that run puppy dog motors and the retro pro class.  Now this is just my opinon, but it seems you are trying to make M-D a "pro level" series, but you don;t have a base of beginners to move up to that level.  As I noted in my previous post, you've lost a couple of tracks and along with them a base of racers.  So you may need to take a step back and re-develop a new base of participants.  I would suggest 3 races per date: flexi retro to help draw some flexi racers to the race and hopefully you can loan some cars to "set the hook", the JK super spec as a good entry level to true retro racing, and then either Can-Am or F1 on a rotating basis (GTC-PD is so close to Can-Am, why bother running it?)

Hopefuly in a seson or two, you'll have a good following. 

[Hipsticker]

well John there has been 1050 views of this post ..i hope 3 of them were the government reading your and noose ideas ....i just want to race my cars...thanks for interjecting sane options you guys!

[Noose]

One of the things I've learned is GTC-FK is ok to bring people in. Just look at the number of entries for this class at SAL when we last ran it. It is a class for sure that people can get into retro. Now mind you the King at SAL is fast but not the speed bowl say of Mimi's or even Port Jeff but it can work if the voltage and the gluing is controlled and reasonable.

[scaleuser]

I'll build some other retro stuff so I can race whatever is most happening (M-D or Flexies) at Mimi's or Sheaves. (one more racer....yea...)

 

Poor turnouts...I say we embrace them and start racing "oval style"

 

It works great at Mimi's (any good banked track) where deslotting can be kept to a minimum. We did it last time with 8 loud super16's on the track at once...it was a BLAST. Lots of pack racing, everybody nearly on the same lap. Spectators actually gathered.

 

If we can make sure it's fun for the core who do show up, the buzz just might reattract some of the good racers that don't show because they suspect the turnout will suck.

 

I want to discuss ways of making scale more exclusive. (like wing cars are supposed to be) I'd pay more for invitation only event's where we know exactly what to expect.

 

 

[Pop's boys]

The GTC-FK class would certainly be less costly initially to build and is clearly popular with both experienced and beginner retro racers. For example  the "Fall Brawl" had a great turnout for the GTC-FK class drawing a good many more racers than the GTC-PD class.

 

As far as RTR chassis go I've seen both the JK and the R-Geo Dragonslayer 3 run well and I believe they are both priced at about $79. I assembled one of the new racers at Sheaves a coupe with the R-Geo RTR chassis and it ran within a tenth of the track record there. These RTR chassis with a Falcon or TSR motor would allow a new to retro driver a competetive car for slightly over $100.

 

Most of us who have been running retro for a while have good chassis or complete cars we don't use anymore that we could make available to our local racers at a reasonable cost and we could also give 'em help on setup. We could also support our local tracks by letting our track owners sell these for cash and then pay us in "Track Bucks".

 

Noose said he brings a few "loaners" to the races, that would be something most of us could do to help introduce new drivers to Retro.

[Fast Freddie]

Some racers just don't travel well. I'm not talking 200,300,or 400 miles but 20, 30, and 40 miles. Many just won't stray away from what they are comfortable with. In the late 80s and early 90s there were 8 tracks within 1 1/2 hours drive from my house in Chesapeake, Va. and they supported hundreds of racers in many different classes. When it came to the Mid-Atlantic series, which at the time was a fairly large series, fewer than 10 percent of those racers traveled to all the series races and many of the local racers never showed up to the races. Many of the racers who raced at my track never ventured to Fastrax in Churchland, Va. (30 miles away), Bob's Scale Auto Raceway in Gloucester, Va. (70 miles away), and never Mimi's The Track or Slot Car City (225-245 approx miles away). How many racers from Sheaves or Johns ever raced at Chicks or Mechanicsville? How many ever traveled to North Carolina, South Carolina, or Mark Greens place in Pennsylvania? It's the racers attitude that has to be changed or what has been going on will continue to go on no matter what classes you run. The more racers who are willing to travel to different events the better the racing. What traveling racers hate most is to go to a race many miles from home and in some cases get a hotel room, then find out that even the local racers didn't show up and there are not enough racers to have a good race. The chances they will return become less and less everytime that happens. Short of a raceway boom like we had in the 90's I can not provide an answer. That type of resurgence is what our hobby desperately needs, and no I won't be building another track I'll leave that to the younger more fit crowd.

[rube]

Though we never made it to chicks we tried....they closed. We have traveled to Tennessee, Jersey, Maryalnd, and parts of VA and other places as well. I can tell you of 4 racers I know that traveled with us to race retro in Maryland and one to race FCR's in Tennessee.

What ever happens people lose interest, life changes, finance etc. make people go astray. Its a shame to see big turn outs for other "points series" races and "premier" events but not all of retro is sharing in that pie. I know every time we race retros whether at sheaves or Mimi's we hope for new/old drivers to turn out and lately they haven't. We would love to see Radisich, Gorski, Bruce, and other big names come out to our points series but especially to the winter Nats events.

Again, people have lives outside of racing, we all have to decide whether its worth our time to keep series going and we can all help each other by scheduling around dates (maybe not all the time) that other Retro series have planned to run on, showing up when we say we will, and getting big names to races. Guys want to race with the best whether they are in the A main or the G main...

[Noose]

Let's look at the details.

 

Mimi's is a great track but for me and most of the other core RE guys it's at least a 5-6 hour trip minimum and would require a hotel stay over.   That's just the guys from Jersey and not the ones from NY or CT.

 

That said, the race was scheduled between two RE races and right after the holidays so the added expense of the hotel makes people gun shy.

 

Then, it was the same time as the Checkpoint Cup and many of the guys you mentioned were heading there and made plans well before this race was announced.

 

I do our scheduling and post it really far in advance so guys can work their schedules as necessary.  I know Billy has been struggling getting things scheduled. He often worked with me on dates for events so we didn't have any conflicts.

 

I know something like computer blowing up didn't help those that attended.  But if it is going to be called a Nats then there has to be proper prior planning and a back-up plan. If I traveled that far then the race is canceled it makes for one heck of an expensive journey.

 

Let's look at it another way too that the success of retro is great and lots of places want to get into it. Like you pointed out, there are other things in a lot of guy's lives and racing every weekend at our age just isn't in the picture.

[rube]

Understood noose, I think though since MD isn't as popular as RE just having a few guys drop in here and there for some races would be great. As would if we could drop into some of the RE races but as you stated there's a bit of traveling involved and scheduling left to contend with

[slotracer43]

Retro East is certainly fortunate to have so many racers who travel to every race, and so many others who race at a few. There is no easy answer to why some race series are able to draw so many while others struggle. If you look at how Noose runs RE , he does such a great job posting a schedule, running a smooth race day, and posting a great race report.. All those things are important. As far as racers trying to run in more than one series, i know that can be very difficult. RE, for the most part races every two weeks. So to travel to another race on an off week, for most, is not an option.

[Noose]

Thanks Adam.  Now my challenge is to try and satisfy the requests of the other tracks like Rapid Ricks, Fast Tracks, etc. that now want to have RE races there. The summer is when we try to get those tracks but even then it's tough because we don't run as often and we also have special events like our Enduro.