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PS4002FK quality control issues


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#1 usadar

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 05:16 AM

Adjusting and lining-up endbell hardwears.
Gluing a metal-bushing at an endbell.
Gluing/soldering a metal-bushing to an can-end.
Recrimping the magnet tabs and gluing the magnets.

We just race PSFK just for IRRA® Can-Am Plus, racing mostly IRRA® Can-Am and F1 here in Tokyo.

Since last autumn, we haven't raced Can-Am Plus; going to race in May this year.
When we raced PSFK motors for Can-Am Plus a couple of times last year, we didn't find the above problems except for misalignment of the brush hardware.

 

The above-mentioned problems of PSFK are recent phenominons?

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#2 Zippity

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 06:20 AM

If doing so evens out the playing field, what possible harm can be done?



#3 Cheater

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 07:38 AM

Participants who don't want to screw with motors potentially will find another hobby to pursue.

 

Yours is the racer's perspective, Zip, and history proves that only accomodating the racers' perspective hasn't worked to grow participation in the hobby.


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#4 The Number of

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 07:55 AM

Haruki, The racers at MMW for the Group F cars have seen all the things you listed for over a year now. The list you have has been the same MINOR problems with them for a long time. It has just getting more press with the recent discussions regarding the JKRH comparisons 


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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 08:01 AM

Haruki,

 

Some of the above stuff, like gluing in the endbell bushing, is just a preventative measure.

We race this motor quite a bit in hardbody racing, and I don't ever remember seeing any issues with the can bearing where it would make sense to solder it in.

The magnet issue might be a more recent phenomena. I've seen it once before with motor in hardbodies, and it just happened to me Wednesday night, while going to install a motor in a wing car.

It must be a semi-regular occurrence, as when someone mentioned it on OWH recently, they got a quick response, with a fix using snap ring pliers. I stopped by my local Harbor Freight yesterday and picked up a pair for $3.99. Hopefully. I'll be able to fix it.

FWIW, I had at least one or two Puppy Dog bag motors with the rubbing magnet issue.


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 08:59 AM

Use the Geary PSFK tool from Swiss, a Trinity heat sink from Tony P, a fan cooler between heats and/or an aluminum heat sucker from R-Geo.

Are comm coolers legal? Take every legal precaution you can.

 

How effective is CA glue on the endbell material?


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#7 John C Martin

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 10:25 AM

A bigger fault I see now is some don't have any end play. The last one I tapped to help tightness, it destroyed the endbell bushing, first..,
and sometimes the over sized brush hoods.



#8 tonyp

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 10:29 AM

They are pretty bad.
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#9 Half Fast

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 11:01 AM

Seems like they are more trouble than they are worth.

 

Cheers,


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#10 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 11:13 AM

Yes, they're pretty bad and (IMHO) not worth the effort, but when the raceway decides to make it the only motor for the only class you learn to live with it. We learned to suffer with the Deathstar's numerous faults and I have to admit that a part of my "annoyance" with the 4002FK is that I have to fix just as many faults. The good news being that the motors are smaller and faster.

 

A big "Thanks, Mate" to both Chicagoland and R-Geo for the alignment tools.

 

Suffering is good for the soul they say.


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#11 MSwiss

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 11:18 AM

Seems like they are more trouble than they are worth.

 

They are a good motor for our hardbody racing.

 

The superior brakes, over a Retro Hawk, are a big deal with 180-220 gram cars.

 

That's not to say we couldn't use the JK Hawk 6, which we do, but that motor is unsealed.


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#12 team burrito

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 11:20 AM

It doesn't matter to me since I rebuild them anyway. Don't you?
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#13 Half Fast

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 11:53 AM

After using a Retro Hawk for a couple of years I have forgotten what brakes feel like!
 
If the RH had more brakes it would be perfect.
 
Cheers,

Bill Botjer

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#14 mam2f

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 12:19 PM

Despite the problems, the 4002 FK is a great little motor for $15. It's very fast and has good brakes. They seem pretty durable. We race them in Can-Am every  week.
 

Other than random stalling, and weak mounting "ears" I haven't had any problems.
 

We run only with an 8 tooth pinion, so we don't have to enlarge the motor bracket hole. To my knowledge, most guys run a 9 tooth with the Retro Hawk so the hole must be enlarged.


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#15 MSwiss

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 01:04 PM

and sometimes the oversized brush hoods.

 

The front ones have seemed to all be bad, ever since Geary and I came out with our alignment tool.

I just got 20 in and I gave two or three a quick look.

Along with a motor (in the bag) with a real bad back hood, there was also another motor with an incredibly good front hood.

20160219_113352-1.jpg

20160219_113448-1.jpg


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Mike Swiss
 
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#16 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 02:55 PM

No self-respecting machine would put out work like that.


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#17 Mike Patterson

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 04:50 PM

They're probably hammered out by a bunch of women and children. Way cheaper than a fancy machine!

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#18 Bill from NH

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 08:44 PM

And once in awhile they turn the lights on so the women and kids can see what they're pounding. :sarcastic_hand:
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#19 Dennis David

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 09:07 PM

Off topic but what's an alternative motor speed-wise that you can service?


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#20 Pablo

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 10:27 PM

Dennis, I'm unsure of your question. There are no legal "alternative" motors in any form of Retro (other than what the rules allow).


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#21 Dennis David

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 11:20 PM

This would not be for Retro. I am looking for a motor that's faster than a Retro Hawk that doesn't have any quality control issues but is inexpensive. Does not need to be sealed either.


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 11:48 PM

Haruki, please forgive my thread drift.
 
Dennis, JK Hawk 7, $12.95.
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#23 MSwiss

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 12:57 AM

He said that can be serviced.

The JK Hawk 6 (30306) might be slightly faster than a Retro Hawk.

Quality might be a tiny bit better than the 4002FK.

Mike Swiss
 
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#24 Les Boyd

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 09:02 AM

Back on topic...It seems like (with all that has to or can be done to the PS 4002FK) it is a very poor idea. If so much has or needs to be done to the motor, then why? Everything that has to or needs to be done takes more time and money to get it to be competitive. And allowing for a "sealed" motor to be altered... is that not inviting cheating?

How far do you allow the alterations to go... how about in-can comm truing... can that be detected... is it allowed? You can also move the magnets in by putting glue or some kind of grout between them and the can.

This can go on and on, and the whole point is... the motor has been altered.

All these things have been done to the 16Ds and S16Ds and you only had one choice spend money to get the equipment to alter your motors or find some one that had a shop and would "fix" a motor for you... at a price.

This is why the Falcon type motor came into the slot car racing, a motor that would be very hard to modify. And IMO it has fixed one of the things that has plagued slot car racing almost from the beginning: the general perception as to can there be fair races and how much money are you willing to spend just to win.
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#25 John C Martin

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 09:53 AM

A bingo for Les... but right now the last boatlLoad of RHs have really been slower and/or are blowing up prematurely...

At least the PSs can be somewhat fixed by anyone... over and over again... and after that fix they seem to be more consistent than the RH whose quality control seems to lag sometimes...

So it's still a toss-up. At this moment quality-wise that's what we get for $13 or $14.

With just a little quality control and a tied comm the PS would be a hit.





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