86 replies to this topic

[Les Boyd]

These types of motors have a wide range of usage. Each one built to its specific configuration to fit its use.

[Marty N]

IRRA^® site shows the armature difference between the Retro Hawk and the Hawk 7 to be stack length of about one lamination? Every other spec seems identical. Am I missing something here?

 

"We" argue and have kittens over a lamination? More difference than that will be caused by the turns of wire tolerance. The shaft weight difference is so close to the axis it has zero measurable impact on inertia of the arm. Someone would really risk a year's suspension over a single lamination that would almost assuredly be caught by rule 4's "No bell tamper" rule and in the end have no measureable impact on the motors performance?

 

We strain out the gnat and gulp down the camel.

[Tex]

If you're concerned about cheaters dropping in a Hawk 7 arm, guess what? If a cheater's going to cheat, he's ALREADY cheating and can make his OWN Hawk 7 arm on any length arm shaft he wants. So, if it's that big a deal to you, save yourself the grief/stress/heartburn and find another hobby.

 

If you have mega-bucks invested in your Retro slot racing program and are getting next to NOTHING in return even when you win, you set yourself up for a guaranteed financial loss... quit crying about it.

 

If you are racing Retro only to WIN, you've already lost. If you are racing Retro for FUN, you've already won.

 

Maroons.

[Paul5097]

IRRA^® site shows the armature difference between the Retro Hawk and the Hawk 7 to be stack length of about one lamination? Every other spec seems identical. Am I missing something here?

 

The IRRA^® site does not have specs for Hawk 7; the specs are for the Falcon 7.

[Les Boyd]

The Hawk 7 has 60 turns and the Retro Hawk has 65, just the same as the Falcon 7.

[Bud Greene]

Just run built motors and put a $30 claim rule on them.

[John C Martin]

It's really simple to tell the difference between a Retro Hawk and a Hawk 7: just weigh them a Retro Hawk is heavier. I am talking about the new Retro Hawk.

 

Did anyone miss this post? It's heavier than a Hawk 7. Means it has more wire than a Hawk 7.

 

Simple solution is let anyone with a old RH cut the shaft if they feel it to be a advantage. Just everyone mount all motors with the engravings down to announce what motor it is for tech.

 

I like the buy-out rule, too.

 

All premier races should be hand-out anyway!

[Kim Lander]

All the worry about motors that are not that different from each other is mind boggling to say the least.

 

I just wish I had a track close enough where I could run my cars on a regular basis. Just do as I have to do, buy an motor from the track when you go to a race AND YOU THEN KNOW IF YOU HAVE A LEGAL MOTOR, helps the track owner, and I get to race. Don't complain until you don't have a track to play on because that's what will happen.

 

Now...where's the popcorn?

[Rick]

John,

 

I don't see any issues for your upcoming race because it is all hand-outs and Tracy has all the motors. I assume he will engrave them all, removing any questions about the motors. Just so they don't leave the raceway...

 

Good luck and have a great time. It's going to be interesting...

[DOCinCanton]

You can't weigh a motor when its in the car. Besides, I don't see an issue here unless the motor spec has been changed other than the shaft length. The engraving will identify the correct motor.

 

In a Retro car, since I place the positive terminal on the right side of the car, the engraving is down and therefore easy to read by turning the car over. For flexi racing, typically the positive terminal is forward and therefore the engraving is on the top side. The body will need to be removed to identify the motor. No problem.

[John C Martin]

Right, Dan. I meant it was obvious for a comparison off the wall not after the buyer does his thing. Just talking Hawk 7 weights to new Retro Hawks being heavier. Cut the shaft on a NEW old Retro Hawk you'll see they weigh the same as new Retro Hawk, enough said.

Right, Rick, I don't see a advantage YET. Track testing will tell. But I do think you should be allowed to cut the shafts on the old Retro Hawks.

You can bet the IRRA^® BoD has already counted the new Retro Hawk's wire wraps, so I'm not really concerned...

[Half Fast]

What is the weight difference between the Hawk 7 and the RH?

 

Cheers

[Greg VanPeenen]

People,

 

The new motors are clearly marked, laser-etched, Only a moron would not be able to tell if the end plate/bush assembly had been tampered with so changing armatures is no issue. As Tracy said they don't weigh the same. If you want to solve the problem have the manufacture spot weld the end plate on after the tabs are crimped. I have a hand-out motor from one of the big west coast races that has the spot welds so it has been done before.

 

The new owner of JK was trying to improve his product. Give him a break.

 

The improved motors should be tested, and tested more than the Retro Hawks were to make sure they don't make the existing motor a thing of the past. Like the Retro Hawk did to the Puppy Dog.

 

Quit bitching about it and let the manufacture and the rulemakers work it out. Sounds like Noose is on top of the so called problem already and I am sure Bryan is, too. It is what it is and will be resolved.

 

Go race and have fun. Get off you keyboards and do something constructive, go build something.

 

Regards,

 

Greg VanPeenen

[Rick]

Who is this and what have you done with Greg?...

[Marty N]

Motor Specifications

Topline Falcon 7, part number ATCD302
JK Falcon 7, part number JK30207

• 65 turns of 30 AWG wire
• Stack length - .375"
• Arm timing - 15 degrees nominal
• Diameter - .513"
• Magnets - Neodymium
• Internal brushes and springs
• Oilite bushings

 

​I know, it says JK Falcon but the part number is right, right?

 

[MSwiss]

30207 was the JK stock number when they sold the Falcon 7.

30307 is the stock number for the Hawk 7.

[Marty N]

Well that isn't confusing. Thanks for the clarification. So what's the difference between the Top Line and Hawk Falcon 7?

[MSwiss]

No such thing as a Hawk Falcon 7.

[The Number of]

No such thing as a Hawk Falcon 7.

 

  Maybe tomorrow?

[Dennis David]

"If you are racing Retro only to WIN, you've already lost."

A truer statement has never been written.

[PCH Parts Express]

The Retro Hawk motors will be collector items. You need to buy them all.

[Greg VanPeenen]

I think I will call JK and buy them and have a hand-out race using those motors. Who's in? LOL.

 

We will call it the bastardised Hawk Retro Hand-out World Championship and I will change the rules every couple of days leading up to the race.

 

Oh yeah, we will run the race on Wing car qualifying voltage so we don't have to worry about those motors ever again. Smoke 'em if you got them. LMAO.   

 

Regards,

 

GVP

[bbr]

As long as the one who wins gets all the accolades, winning is a big deal.

 

The culture of any racing series celebrates the winner and who finishes second?

 

I'm pretty sure that was not how it was when the first "retro" race was run at BPR, but you would have to ask Bryan.

[Cheater]

You have to celebrate the winners, for sure, Mike, but what's more important is to celebrate and archive all the racers' accomplishments. That was what was done back in the slot car magazine days, and even today, we remember the names of the famous racers I won't bother to list. It's nice to have a format that recognizes multiple winners, too, like dual concours awards.

 

When winning becomes too big "a big deal" is when the problems begin. Are bragging rights really that valuable?

[bbr]

To some, yes!

 

I have seen guys that only attend races that they could win, they would even stack the playing field.