93 replies to this topic

[Tim Neja]

I'm not interested in HO tracks, but modular 1/24 and 1/32 size tracks. Most of the racers I know that enjoy these are NOT HO racers. HO is too small - not scale enough for the guys that really enjoy 1/32 plastic track cars.

Know of anyone still building modular 1/24-1/32 tracks? If so, where and how much?

Tim

[Hworth08]

Marty, an HO Engleman? There must not be any of these tracks left as they would be snapped up in a heartbeat! Sure would be a good track for the Fray in Ferndale.

Tim, HO doesn't seem to be your scale but worldwide there are probably a hundred HO (actually 1/64 scale) cars sold for every one 1/32 scale. Just check the number of eBay auctions. Quickly I can think of six companies or individuals that are currently building HO home-use tracks such as you are thinking of.

For speed and quickness in a small space, the HO pocket-rockets can't be touched.

[Tim Neja]

Geez - This WHOLE TOPIC was about 1/32 and 1/24 scale tracks!! NOT HO! So why stuff it in here?

Just trying to keep on topic, some said modular designs were tried and failed, but I've never seen an ad for them? And I've always liked slot racing and WOULD HAVE BOUGHT ONE if I'd only known they existed.

But, NOT being a hardcore slot racer, I would have had to find them through some ad somewhere. If they only advertised in slot racing magazines, then they MISSED the largest target market out there by marketing to one of the smallest buying pools on the planet. I'm just wondering if it was soo poorly responded to because there was no popular tools used for advertising the products? But, no answers forthcoming from "those in the know"?

Tim

[jimht]

Hey Tim...
The $1000 Car Model Engleman HO track would sell for about $7000 in 2008 dollars...any buyers out there that aren't in the sloooooooowly dying commercial raceway market?
And I don't recall any actually being produced & sold.
Bigger & modular would be even more painful.
There are actually millions being spent on toy plastic track, but it's a toy that can be used by a Hobbyist.
What you're asking for is a Hobby item that is useless to the toy market.
To keep the Hobby item cheap, the available track layout options wind up being very limited.
As the options increase, so does the price.
At $130/ft for 3 lane track, SlotFire isn't going anywhere.
You want cheaper, chop your own out of MDF (I'll sell you the braid ) or get one of the plastic track companies to commit a few million to a non-existent market.
This is not meant as a denigration of your sparkling wish to have your toy the way you like it...it's just a reality check from JimHT.

[Tim Neja]

I've already designed my own and am going to hand-route it out of MDF or possibly masonite. It IS modular in that it will be four lsne on 4four 4x8' boards, that will have three joints. It will be capable of being taken down and stacked in the corner of my three- car garage. So, for a few weeks, I'll park my cars/hotrods outside and the track will be up, then come down for convenience.

I'm interested in braid. Chris at BPR is helping me with ideas and power supply/lap counters. I've got basic Professor Motor controllers. Now it's just up to my son-in-law to have time to help me with the routing and wiring. He's the wood expert, having built sets for Fox studios for years now.

So, I'm going to have my track. I was just trying to see if America would be interested in a SlotFire system. Came up with a CnC machine that is not being used, and need to figure out if I can produce tracks half the price SlotFire is marketing theirs for. Because I know at that price, it won't go anywhere.

FWIW,

Tim

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

Tim, just out of curiosity, are you familiar with "Quick Trax"? This was a small company of about fifteen years ago that had a similar idea. With a wrinkle. It was two-lane, desiged for Womps before the current 1/32 explosion. The short version of the story is that this extended Mormon family was doing slot car things at "swap meets" around the country. They would show up with a portable slot track and Womps and set up races and the like. To make it easier for the family one of the guys designed this modular system that would not only BE modular( but limited) but the surface itself would fold up into a compact "box" with drawers for the power, cars, and controllers. One of the family had contacts in China that was doing the CNC for them and would cut, finish, and send.

So, their business switched to also selling these ready-to-run packages.

I know that Rad Trax sold a few, but otherwise I have no idea further about their business model or success or lack of it.

Fate

[Tim Neja]

Now that's the kind of information that could prove very helpful! I am involved in an R/C Sailplane industry, and many of our products are now made in China - very inexpensively.

My main thought was IF I could come up with a simple modular system design, similar to SlotFire, that COULD be marketed to the home hobbyist, not the slot car purist - because that market is miniscule, that I could find a mill in China to reproduce the track and power systems!! Then, perhaps we could discuss a viable, inexpensive product to compete with the plastic track revolution!!

It needs to be modular, four lane would be best, and simple to set up. Joining the track, setting on the floor or on tables, portable to some extent would work best for the intended market - it will need to accomodate Carrera 1/24 scale but the primary target is the 1/32 scale market that seems to be HUGE! I'm not trying to hit the 1/24 slot car devotee - but the track could be used by him. But I KNOW, from talking to the "slot racer dudes" that are hard core, as soon as I mention something like "sqeeze lane" modules and the like, their eyes glaze over and they get this disgusted look on their faces!! So I know that's NOT the market I'm looking for.

Anyone else out there have a line on modular systems?? I'm not trying to re-invent the complete wheel, I need a simple, good joining system, and best/cheapest/STRONG product to route the track out of. I don't think fiberglass in this day and age would be inexpensive enough. MDF?? Formica??? Melamine??? Is there a better surface out there than another?? Is just smooth good??

Let me know from your experiences - what you know please. If we can do it, it would help slot car racing grow!!

Tim

[mrtc4w]

I don't know if THIS is the same track you are talking about, Rocky. Mine is a "Quick Start".

The picture was taken at Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course during the Vintage Gran Prix.

[Raymond 'Speedy' Gonzalez]

Jim,

I do not want to get into this discussion about the market for these tracks, but Bob Rule had a store in the Altanta area in the early '70s with one of these Engleman HO tracks.

I know because I came out of the big bank and crashed to the floor about every other lap for about 30 minutes.

Raymond "Speedy" Gonzalez

[Hworth08]

Tim,

This is a good to learn from:

http://uk.geocities....build/index.htm

You're taking a good step by building a track first. I believe you'll learn that a 4 lane track with lane spacing and gutters that can support even the slow RTR plactic cars leaves quite a large footprint, in the 8 by 16 foot range.

Take some newspaper, sissors, and a magic marker and actually lay out a track you have in mind on the floor and see how much room the track actually takes!

You're basic idea is sound. I believe there is a market for high quality home tracks. You will be competing with the current commercial track builders though. They are quite willing to build 4 lane tracks of any design.

[Tim Neja]

I'd love to find more information on the "Quick Start" track, Marty. Any chance we can contact the original builder?

Thanks for the info, Don. I'm really not trying to compete with the commercial builders - because there is a huge difference between a 1/32 style modular track and a permanent layout designed for a dedicated space. Yes, this track will need to be capable of "crossing over" into 1/24 size on occasion, but it's dedicated towards replacing "plastic tracks" with routed track performance. That's the intended market - the people with "dedicated space" for slot racing is in reality, a "tiny" market. Not many can afford to do that.

I am familiar with the size of the footprint, but I like your idea of laying out the track in my space. I have measured it out many times - and taped out the area with masking tape, but showing the actual curves and layout could be beneficial.

Thanks, guys. I'm open to any and all suggestions AND the experience that you have had. I DON'T think this is simple. But I HAVE talked to a LOT of people that would be interested in a modular system and many have said they will buy it. BUT that's still a lot different from plunking down actual cash when it's available.

T

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

Marty, you are correct, I misremembered, Quick Start.

I would contact Doug Clements owner of MRS Hobby in Salt Lake. He knew the producer personally and would remember more about the company.

Fate

[johnford]

I am in the final stages of having a new book printed on How to Build a Slot Track... The New American Way. With tons of pictures and illustrations, this will be the most comprehensive book on the subject in about 35 years. It will be in our typical small booklet fashion and will answer so many of your questions about how things are done.

Contrary to my good friend JimHT's opinion, commercial slot racing is NOT dying. Just pick up any current issue of SARN and turn to page 35 to see the continually-growing list of commercial slot racing centers that sell our magazine.

Today's raceway however needs to be much more diversified in order to be successful than those of the past. Today, I believe every raceway needs to have at least one 1/32 scale track with Jim's Magnetech braid in order to run the new breed of 1/32 scale slot cars.

We all need our toys... no matter what they cost...

[CruzinBob]

We were talking about old tracks the other day and I seem to remember running at a raceway in Wayne, NJ, which had tracks made with a fiberglass surface. Was there such a thing or did all those '60s drugs cloud my memory?

Every now and then it's a good idea to look at the initial post, dontchathink?!

[jimht]

Raymond "Speedy" Gonzalez said:

Bob Rule had a store in the Altanta area in the early '70s with one of these Engleman HO tracks

Thanks, Ray. Now you've jogged a vague memory that maybe only one or 2 were made & Bob wound up with one???
Help me out here, John...you talked to Stan not long after all this.
The Engleman HO track was routed, with Formica sides, not fiberglass.
It might have been successful if it had been introduced with steel braid when HO switched to magnetics...before the big box toy stores took HO out of the Hobby market.
johnford said:

Contrary to my good friend JimHT's opinion, commercial slot racing is NOT dying.

Hey John, it was a joke...commercial slot car racing has been dying for 40 years...slooooooooowly.
Definitely cyclical, but very much independent of "normal" business practices.
Who would think there would be so many optimists thinking they can form a Club AND make a living off it AND have their buds pay the bills ?

[Hworth08]

Jim,

Steel braid isn't needed for HO tracks. The power rails are steel. Ed Bianchi, the old Car Model writer, builds a few HO tracks that use braid as he also developed the Slide Glide, a guide to replace the standard pin and pick-up shoes uded on HO cars.

Tim,

Another site I found looking for Ed Bianchi's track:

Small Scale Routed Slot Track Construction

I raced HO scale with Kevin Shaw of Full Tilt. Real nice person that would be glad to talk with you about laminate surfaces. Kevin built some fine HO tracks that were as smooth as a marble floor!

Mike Swiss's router jigs are also pictured on the site.

[jimht]

Don,
Serious elevation changes, as on tracks with cross-overs, are extremely difficult with rail.
Braid, magnetic or not, solves that problem.
I've sold Ed braid for his tracks for many years & his slide guide is a neat way of running HO without magnets.
That sort of stuff is appealing to adult hobbyists but it has limited mass market value.
HO was pretty dead before the introduction of magnets...that turned it into a feasible toy for kids & the market boomed.
It became so popular the mass toy marketers became involved & forced the Hobby Shops out.
The custom HO track builders like BUCKTRAX or 21st Century built beautiful Formica surfaced flat tracks with rail mainly for clubs.
Fiberglass would have been better for mass produced commercial HO tracks.
There just wasn't much interest in the commercial raceway market...
maybe because the big toy sellers had kind of taken HO away from adults & made it a kid toy.
1/43 may develop into the toy/hobby crossover scale...we'll see.

[johnford]

Raymond "Speedy" Gonzalez said:

[color="#2E8B57"]Thanks, Ray. Now you've jogged a vague memory that maybe only one or 2 were made & Bob wound up with one???
Help me out here, John...you talked to Stan not long after all this.
The Engleman HO track was routed, with Formica sides, not fiberglass.
It might have been successful if it had been introduced with steel braid when HO switched to magnetics...before the big box toy stores took HO out of the Hobby market.

HO was the last thing on my mind when I had conversations with Stan Engleman back in the late '70s. I wanted to pick his brains on my ideas for changing the construction process for slot tracks that had been around since the '60s. I don't think I ever even saw an Engleman HO track. Could be vague images from the past of one in the Houston area... but these days... all the memories are vague!

As for commercial slot racing... it is sloooooly growing. So slow, some think it is sloooowly dying. Of course, there are those that know the real truth. They are the ones still being successful and enjoying watching all the rest!...

[Tim Neja]

Okay, thanks for the input, John and everyone.

I'm still going to work on this project until it's proven viable or not. I KNOW I can market this IF I can make a nice working product for less then the German SlotFire system. I've got several people who have contacted me saying they are very interested in a modular system such as I/we have been discussing.

Now, the design and manufacturing problems need to be addressed. I'll try to contact the hobby shop in Utah. I'd love any input I can get on that portable track in a box idea.

Thanks again,

Tim

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

Well, I DID talk to Doug Clements yesterday about this. As I said, the family doing the system was local. Turns out no one I know, including Doug, has any idea what happened to them. Doug says he will ask around to see if there is an old invoice or something. But right now, that is a dead end.

Fate

[Hworth08]

Tim,

The name escapes me but there is a small company making HO plastic track that is a lot better than what the "big" companies produce.

The curves have nice gutters. The straights are three or four feet in length. The joints where the track sections joint are nice and smooth with good electrical connections.

In other words, a quality product built as a racing track should be, and only about twice the cost of the rather-sorry hobby shop track.

The larger scale plastic track isn't all that bad. The steel rails are pretty tough and the surface can have decent grip. If the designers would just go race on a Gerding track a week or two and find out what they choose to ignore!

The problems I see with a track as you are thinking of is designing track pieces that can be slipped together and be placed on the floor or a table. The pieces must not warp or bow in shipment, use, or storage and be tough enough for kid use. Basically the same problems the commercial builders overcame but using much less costly methods.

Demand-wise, I believe you would be shipping a track a week.

[CruzinBob]

... there is a small company making HO plastic track that is a lot better than what the "big" companies produce...

Ya'll gettin' me caught up in these non-thread issues.

MaxTrax Scale Racing has been producing custom HO track pieces since about '02.

[Hworth08]

MaxTrax is the name I couldn't recall. I raced on one about a year till it was replaced with one of Kevin Shaw's track. Four or five years ago it took about a year to get delivery they were so popular.

Bob, you're a good track builder, what's your opinion of Tim's proposed track? Actually, by the fact you're not now producing such a track leads me to believe there may be a problem.

[CruzinBob]

..Bob, you're a good track builder, what's your opinion of Tim's proposed track? Actually, by the fact you're not now producing such a track leads me to believe there may be a problem.

The major problem which is growing worse by day is cost of delivery. Tim believes that tracks can be made lightweight but there's only so much you can do. The Quickstart is a great example of somthing tried and failed for whatever reason. In order to continue in business the CNC needs to be running, labor needs to be paid and tracks need to be sold. It's a lot of interaction that depends on sales. Tim may be a fine salesman but dealing with this industry and the passionate cries for tracks has not proven to be reliable.

The very best effort I've seen is Doug Sheperd's 21st Century tracks. He had it nailed but would not venture out of the 1/64 scale.

[Tim Neja]

Bob,
I need to know what Doug did right, and how to best adapt it to 1/32 scale!!! I'm wondering if fiberglass wouldn't work well, build the track with mold's. I'm still trying to see about making the track with 4 lane modules, that would be light enough and small enough to ship inexpensively. I'm still not giving up on it yet!! FWIW

Tim