Jump to content




Photo

CNC: Chassis fabrication


  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#26 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:15 PM

Nothing. Just decided to go in a different direction. More X and Y and less Z. LOL

Anyway these posts will not be about what machine to buy but rather about drawings, tool paths, materials and the end result which is what matters.

I plan to make parts that I can use in the building of slot cars and have fun along the way.

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   





#27 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:16 PM

Alan I would rather go with overkill. Its the same with paint and solder fumes. My mill will be in an enclosed space in the house and not the garage.

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#28 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,239 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:36 PM

Just keep in mind you are going to be creating chips, vs. dust.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#29 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:38 PM

Yes, for the most part but take a look at the following video.

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#30 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:43 PM


Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#31 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:45 PM

Looks pretty dusty
  • Dayble likes this

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#32 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:49 PM


Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#33 Ecurie Martini

Ecurie Martini

    Ecurie Martini

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 803 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore MD

Posted 27 December 2017 - 03:33 PM

Looks like a very capable piece of gear.  HSS steel cutters will wok but carbide is sharper and will last many times longer.  I tended to use multi - edge rather than single edge bits.  From looking at the way it cuts aluminum, I would bet that, should the need arise, you could cut mild (not spring tempered) steel - just go slow, use a sharp bit and plenty of lubricant.  I assume that the spindle speed is variable.

 

With the right programming, you could teach it to engrave a logo.

 

EM

 

PS - another person with a great deal of experience in this arena - Dennis Samson (I don't know if he posts here)


Alan Schwartz

#34 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 03:54 PM

5000-25,000rpm

Sandy Grant out of the UK is doing something similar to what I am doing and a couple of guys in Germany. If you take away the machine and focus on CAD, tool paths and cutting tools its pretty similar to any other CNC Mill.

The question is when would steel be preferable to 7075 Aluminum.

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#35 Ecurie Martini

Ecurie Martini

    Ecurie Martini

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 803 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore MD

Posted 27 December 2017 - 04:24 PM

5000-25,000rpm

Sandy Grant out of the UK. If you take away the machine and focus on CAD, tool paths and cutting tools its pretty similar to any other CNC Mill.

The question is when would steel be preferable to 7075 Aluminum.

 

If you are making a part that you need to bend or need adequate strength in a very thin section or need to solder to it.

 

5000 RPM should be OK with small tools - what you are concerned about is surface speed - tool circumference X RPM - it is different for different materials.  There are tables in places like the Machinist's Handbook.  I had one but it went when I sold my mill.

 

EM


Alan Schwartz

#36 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 05:09 PM

Yes I have the handbook! Were talking 3mm end Mills

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#37 Ecurie Martini

Ecurie Martini

    Ecurie Martini

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 803 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore MD

Posted 27 December 2017 - 05:58 PM

OK - I recall that cutting speeds in steel were about 100ft/min

 

3mm radius X 3.14 = 9.42 mm = .38 " = .031' X 5000 = 154'/min - dodgy

 

Drop to 1/16 end mill and you're @ 82'/min

 

Most of my chassis were cut with a 1/16 tool - if you don't push them, they don't break too often - but I always bought them in packs of 5!

 

One of the real advantages of CAM is that you can set your feeds low and don't have to stand there and try crank slowly and evenly.  The hard part is getting used to the idea that the machine does not need you standing there and watching.

 

EM


  • grooverunner likes this
Alan Schwartz

#38 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 06:21 PM

Wonderful. Yes this is exactly the things you need to think about when you do CNC milling regardless of the Mill you use, the physics are the same.

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#39 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 28 December 2017 - 01:44 PM

Two books I bought a few years back when I first started think of making my own parts. Though they dont focus on CNC they still have lots of useful information. So what about a good book on CNC? Well I've looked and I would have to say fuhgeddaboudit that is until I found the CNC Programming Handbook, Third Edition. A 600 page textbook.

 

 

You'll be better served by checking out online resources like:

 

CNCZone

http://www.cnczone.com/

 

CNCCookbook

https://www.cnccookbook.com/index/

 

Modern Machine Shop

https://www.mmsonline.com/

 

Practical Machinist

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/

Attached Images

  • CNC handbook.jpg
  • 978DA425-778F-4962-9997-6DB25D069A86.jpeg

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#40 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 28 December 2017 - 03:38 PM

One thing that I need to stress is that I tend to go for door number 2 when door number 1 is cheaper and often almost as good. I will try to add some lower price options when possible. 

 

One piece of advise is any dust extraction is better than none. If you want to use a shop vac I might suggest you look for something with a CFM over 90 and consider a Cyclone Dust Deputy by Oenida Air as a 1st stage.

 

https://www.oneida-a...UgaAsi6EALw_wcB


  • Half Fast likes this

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#41 Ecurie Martini

Ecurie Martini

    Ecurie Martini

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 803 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore MD

Posted 28 December 2017 - 03:40 PM

I have been a poster/reader on CNC Zone for years - very valuable source.

 

EM


Alan Schwartz

#42 grooverunner

grooverunner

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 145 posts
  • Joined: 10-December 15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MA

Posted 28 December 2017 - 03:58 PM

Dennis

 

I have a Oenida Air  V system dust collector in my Cabinet shop piped to all the machines. Oenida is 1st rate on there cyclonic designs. I have had other dust collectors alot of them were rated higher cfm pull/ suction of the the V system I have now, but in reality didn't even have close to the suction or the efficiency of the Oenida 

 

I been planning to get a dust deputy for my Mill for awhile but haven't yet, if it is even close to there larger systems on cyclonic design it should be great for the application.

As a first stage it will get all the large pieces and fine partials/ dust is all that should be in the shop vac.

 

Ken 


Ken  Hill

#43 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 28 December 2017 - 04:10 PM

I've been talking to Greg (Not about Retro Hawks) and he agreed to create a sub forum called "Computer Numerical Control / Computer Aided Manufacturing & 3D Printing (CNC/CAM & 3DP)".

 

Now doesn't that just roll off the top of your tongue. I guess the first thing I need to do is change the name to Computer Aided Manufacturing. Hopefully I can get others to contribute, especially with regards to 3DP so this doesn't become an echo chamber. LOL  


  • Samiam and Eddie Fleming like this

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#44 Half Fast

Half Fast

    Keeper Of Odd Knowledge

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,057 posts
  • Joined: 02-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, Long Island

Posted 28 December 2017 - 04:18 PM

I'm learning a lot here guys, keep it up and thanks. :good:

 

Cheers


Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now.

The most dangerous form of ignorance is not knowing that you don't know anything!

 

 

 
 

#45 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 28 December 2017 - 04:37 PM

To help people I will be organizing the information as I progress. For now I am realizing that I need to at least consider buying a PC because more software is available on that machine than on a Mac. Now I understand that you can find many Mac substitutes but what I have found is just not the same. After going through a tutorial of Solid Edge 2D which had cost just under $1000 before it was made free I have not found a Mac software that's as easy. to use. Heck I can always use it as my game machine as well.

 

So I am looking at a slim desktop and a 21:9 monitor to be dedicated to CNC and the odd game or two. 


Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#46 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:31 PM

Ken, sorry I did not see your post. This is the 1.5HP V-1500 HEPA Dust Collector 35 Gal Freestand version for $1,759.  Though I think my wife would kill me if she found this in our family room.  I was thinking of the metal version but the shop vac doesn't have enough CFM and the ones that have 125+ are expensive so I decided to look at one of the small metal dust extractors that have 400-600 CFM.

v-system.jpg

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#47 grooverunner

grooverunner

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 145 posts
  • Joined: 10-December 15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MA

Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:17 PM

Dennis,

 

I wasn't saying get a similar machine as I have, that would be definitely over kill for you :laugh2:

The regular Dust Deputy attached to good shop vac with a fine filter on the shop vac should work for you, I would think :unknw:

 

By the way how did you sell a desktop gantry mill to the wife, and to put it in her family room to boot.. You must have a really nice and understanding wife..

 

 

 

Ken


Ken  Hill

#48 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:01 PM

Regular shop-vac doesn't suck enough.

 

Actually it hasn't arrived yet plus I would not run it while she is around unless she's running her $600 juicer which is louder than my mill and dust extractor combined! I chose a gantry style desktop mill because it's more like an art/conversation piece rather than some big greasy piece of equipmenrt. LOL

 

Besides I can always remind her of her $500 ladder or Kirby vacuum.  :laugh2:


Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   


#49 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,239 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:59 PM

Ken, sorry I did not see your post. This is the 1.5HP V-1500 HEPA Dust Collector 35 Gal Freestand version for $1,759.  Though I think my wife would kill me if she found this in our family room.  I was thinking of the metal version but the shop vac doesn't have enough CFM and the ones that have 125+ are expensive so I decided to look at one of the small metal dust extractors that have 400-600 CFM.

v-system.jpg

Oneida cyclone?

This mean like this?

20171228_224858-1.jpg

I haven't used mine since 2009.

When I was in an industrial spot, the huge bracket that supported it, was bolted to my cement block wall's.

Since I moved to regular retail spots, I've used a Ridgid shop vac, because I've been too lazy to build a stand.

20171228_222018-1.jpg

It works pretty well, but I'm just sucking MDF/sawdust.

When I bought mine, in 2004, I don't really remember a stand, like the one shown, being available.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#50 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 29 December 2017 - 12:22 AM

Cool. You sure that ist a North Korean missle part painted to look like a Cyclone?
  • MSwiss likes this

Dennis David
    
curb-line2.jpg
 
gph_sm.jpg
   






Electric Dreams Online Shop