98 replies to this topic

[MSwiss]

Gil,

Your post couldn't be any less rude.

You act like we are behind the latest batch of 7R's having hard brushes (edit-add), or could of predicted it 5(?) years ago, when we approved this motor, that has served us so well, in that time.

Where are we generating money to test these motors, so often, and carefully, as you wish we did?

You act as if you are paying IRRA^® dues and we are your employees.

[slick in the slot]

i don't think i'm rude why didn't irra check for differences in the batches of hawk motors?  would have prevented the racers from buying useless motors. i think rudeness is when an irra official posts that if  racers don't like the situation, they can  quit. now that's a great way to promote the hobby!  if irra doesn't want to check these hawk type motors on a batch by batch basis then find a better motor

[kvanpelt]

ROFLMAO!!!! I don't know if Gil's post was rude or not, but I sure got a good laugh from it!

[MSwiss]

Gil,
We did check them.

The issue, by all indications, is the brushes.

And there has been plenty of great running 7R motors, especially early on.

We don't have the resources to perform an analysis of the brushes on one motor , let alone every 100th one.

Sorry, Gil, but you act as Retro racing is a high 6 figure, to million dollar, pastime, with 1,000's of participants.

It clearly, isn't.

And unless you see a post, under the IRRA® joint heading, don't take a comment by one of the 5 BOD, as an official statement.

And what motor, that is currently available, is going to solve any current motor issues?

[tonyp]

Brushes vary batch to batch. It’s just the way it is. No way to control it. We moved to 7r only in the can am class in the GRRR series and there were plenty of good motors. No one had any issues with them.


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[gotboostedvr6]

Mike,

I'd hate to start to sound like Flem but the 4002fk motors are much closer in performance.

[MSwiss]

The IRRA®, at this juncture, is not looking for a motor that you can change the brushes and springs.

[tonyp]

Any motor you can change brushes and springs you can cheat with.


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[Brinkley47]

Any motor you can change brushes and springs you can cheat with.


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how so?

[MSwiss]

Retruing the commutator, while inside the motor.

It's not just a cheating issue.

It's replacing brushes, with superior ones, that might not still be available to all racers.

[Noose]

Will not a subject for this thread. Perhaps the maker of your favorite T Shirt will enlighten you.

The request for motor submissions set the requirements and that type of motor is not allowed.

It should be noted none of the BoD has been notified by anyone else they are submitting a motor so I guess no one has the time or money to do so.

I’ll post my testing results when done. Made the 2 hour trip at my expense to Port Jeff to do so. More to be done.




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[Brinkley47]

Will not a subject for this thread. Perhaps the maker of your favorite T Shirt will enlighten you.

The request for motor submissions set the requirements and that type of motor is not allowed.

It should be noted none of the BoD has been notified by anyone else they are submitting a motor so I guess no one has the time or money to do so.

Ill post my testing results when done. Made the 2 hour trip at my expense to Port Jeff to do so. More to be done.




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i understand. If the proposed motor has hard brushes and slower than the R, I think going with the professor motor will only make things worse.

Oh well. I am going to send it at the R4

[tonyp]

We are not looking to replace the 7R just looking for options that are the same performance.


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[MSwiss]

We are not uncertifying the 7R.

[Brinkley47]

We are not looking to replace the 7R just looking for options that are the same performance.


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the 7r is the problem, in my opinion.

[MSwiss]

And we have opened up submissions.

Anyone who wants to submit an FK130 style, motor that has great brushes, is welcome to.

We have not closed submissions.

[jimht]

The heck with all this concern to do with unfairness because of mass produced motors and their mass produced flaws.

 

I think it's even more unfair that some chassis work better than others and it's tricky to duplicate such things when they're apparently handmade by ancient elves that have all the secrets.

 

And what about those obvious unfair Darwinian discrepancies between the participants, eh?

 

The bright side:

the redeeming feature of the 7R is that because of the hard brushes it does what it does for a long time, what a value!

[Samiam]

And what about those obvious unfair Darwinian discrepancies between the participants, eh?

 

 

What are you trying to say??    I'm like a very stable genius  .

[usadar]

A great majority of IRRA racers are looking forward to the test results of Professor Motor’s retro motors.
We hope we will be able to have good alternatives of a single brand, JK Retro Hawk.
We also hope competition will improve our motor situation for the benefit of retro racing.
I am now going to test the last RH R motors I bought from JK Online Store, together with a couple of recent 7R’s.
At the dyno testing, the both performs similar but I will wait and see until testing them on track on Sunday.
Good Racing,
Haruki

[Tim Neja]

Mike,

I'd hate to start to sound like Flem but the 4002fk motors are much closer in performance.

Oh ONLY if that were true!! It's just NOT!!  That's certainly part of the problem with running cheap chinese motors.  It is what it is!! 

[MSwiss]

It's hard to argue with the Retro Hawk when you see results like the below:

Sorry, we were not Kreskin and could predict hard brushes were in the future.

[Cap Henry]

The PSFK is no more consistent then the retro hawk, it simply hasnt had the 2 speed issue. But occasionally you get one that needs push started.

[MSwiss]

Thanks, for your candid post, Cap.

 

Do you also agree approving the 4002FK would obsolete all Retro Hawk motors?

[Cap Henry]

Yes. On my American king the track record for the PSFK in Can Am and F1 is a solid tenth faster then the records for Retro Hawks.

[MSwiss]

As I've said before, all that mumbo jumbo, that they are both 65T30, so they should be considered equal, is just that, mumbo jumbo.

 

Two things are equal, the wind and timing.

 

The blank design, mags(not identical), can design, endbell design, brush size, spring type, are all different.

 

And most importantly, like you said Cap, the timer doesn't lie.

 

Conversely, when I tested the original Retro Hawks, they were not faster than the best Puppy Dogs, I had ever owned.

 

Not even close.

 

It just turned out it was easier, and cheaper, to find a fast Retro Hawk, than a similar performing Puppy Dog.