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Pinning a motor endbell oilite


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#26 havlicek

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 06:54 AM

John,

 

My suggestion was for the endbell not the toilet flusher. Basically same drilling technique but do away with the 'pin' and let the loctitie alone do the work. Drill and loctitie in 2 places for added security.

 

Bob K.

 

 

OH! I see said the blind man ;)  You're probably right!  That would be more like (sorta) what I do to these motors.  The only thing I would worry about is that Loctite is even less viscous than the epoxy I use, and I would worry about it getting into (and fouling) the oilite's many "pores".  Still I guess it doesn't if people are doing this!


John Havlicek




#27 havlicek

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 07:00 AM

Sooo, after two pages on this:

1)***The end bell bearing/bushing comes loose.

2)***When it does come loose, it can cause bad things to happen

3)The issue should be "solved", but it can be "fixed" and prevented from becoming a problem.

4)Drilling and pinning should be about as bombproof a fix as is possible

5)Drilling and just "Loctiting" seems like a good alternative

6)ANY repair/fix needs to be within whatever rule set you race under before you risk making your motors illegal.
 


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#28 Pablo

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 07:43 AM

I plan to pin all my ****

and I'm not going to wait for my toilet lever to break - I'm going to do it now

:laugh2: :crazy:


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#29 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 08:40 AM

Careful with this guys, we might have to get the 'spirit meter' back out. :shok:

 

Bob K.



#30 Pablo

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 08:58 AM

He's right, Mike S, if you go to a hotel and the toilet seat is sealed after maid service, you cannot tinker with it in any way.

If you do, you'll be banned from all hotels in the USA permanently.

 

Race fans, stand by for my upcoming thread:

Skeet shooting, using the Solunar Tables® :D


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Paul Wolcott

#31 MSwiss

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 12:26 PM

I really couldn't, easily, test it for spinning, but I did see how much effort it took to push it out, from the outside, and even without gluing it traditionally, around the circumference, the effort was real substantial.

 

IOW, IMO, the car would be a wadded up ball, before that pinned bushing would spin.


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#32 Dave Crevie

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 02:01 PM

In the end, legality will probably be the issue. Mike's method is probably the best for plastic endbells. But motors run hot, and

plastics don't like heat. The permanent fix, though not legal for sealed motors, is an aluminum endbell into which the bushing

presses in firmly. Jerry K. made a few aluminum endbells for the Hawk 6 can, just to see if there was any interest in them. I

have two. I used one in a build using an X-12 arm and cobalt motor brushes and hoods. I have the other unused, and I could

post a photo if there is interest. The trick will be showing Tim that he can sell enough of them for him to be interested. Which 

would entail starting a class for these motors, or making them legal for retro pro.



#33 jimht

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 03:39 PM

Koford M287A Aluminum Endbell for Hawk

 

https://www.eagledis...escription=true


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#34 havlicek

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 03:57 PM

JK aluminum end bell for Hawk

https://www.jkproduc.../6119-m6ea.html


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#35 bbr

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 12:32 AM

an easy fix would be PS sourcing an longer endbell bushing, so it will stick out... then it would be easy to glue to the endbell


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#36 Samiam

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 08:26 AM

Or they could just have the Chinese make it right in the first place. 


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#37 havlicek

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 09:36 AM

an easy fix would be PS sourcing an longer endbell bushing, so it will stick out... then it would be easy to glue to the endbell

 

 

Not really.  The end bell has an outer ring that partially covers the bushing end.  For the bushing to "stick out", it would have to be made specifically for this, because it would need an inner flange, a 5mm body and then a reduced outer section to fit through the end bell...OR...the end bell would have to be re-designed...OR...existing end bells would have to be reamed, none of which are easy or cheap.  I *think* a bushing with a splined body (just as the old Mabuchis had) with a slightly tighter fit would probably be easiest, but still not cheap and wouldn't do anything for any existing stock.  Some sort of fix by the end-user seems the way to go,*as long as it complies with whatever rules are in play.


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#38 Dallas Racer

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 09:51 AM

As I remember, back in the '80s building I15 motors, we would enlarge the bushing hole in the endbell or decrease the bushing diameter, and epoxy the bushing in using an armature slug. This was done to center the bushing in relation to the magnets. I don't recall any problems with spun bushings.


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#39 havlicek

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 11:56 AM

As I remember, back in the '80s building I15 motors, we would enlarge the bushing hole in the endbell or decrease the bushing diameter, and epoxy the bushing in using an armature slug. This was done to center the bushing in relation to the magnets. I don't recall any problems with spun bushings.

 

Hi Phil,

     Sure, there are ways to do this besides Swiss' method, but the ones you mention wouldn't be do-able in a class where the motor needs to remain sealed.


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#40 GE53

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 07:14 PM

DSCN5314.JPG DSCN5315.JPG When the local track switched from 501s to PS 16Ds half way into the second race my motor slowed. I pulled the motor apart to find out why. Pulling the end bell off the bushing was still on the arm.After trying super glue which would glue the bushing to the shaft. Using a .040 drill for holes to reach the bushing with super glue didn't seem like it didn't do any good either. Already drilling the end bell why not drill into the bushing and pin it with .032 wire. Drill end bell with .040 clean out hole drill bushing with .035 when you see bushing dust your in the bushing plenty, blow out with air gun, fill with epoxy insert .032 wire 3/16 - 1/4 long. I use JB quick set and dremel cut off wheel to trim excess. Takes 15 - 20 minutes. 

 Been doing this for about a year now, works great motors last a lot longer.


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#41 olescratch

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 03:54 PM

The reflections make it seem as though these motors are soldered together, eyestrain.  Time to get away from the keyboard and pickup a soldering iron. 


John Stewart

#42 Mr. M

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 05:11 PM

Forget spinning the bearing. When I race, you guys are not up against the guys I run with. The epoxy is to keep it together from all the crash abuse!
Chris McCarty

#43 Dallas Racer

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 10:10 PM

 

Hi Phil,

     Sure, there are ways to do this besides Swiss' method, but the ones you mention wouldn't be do-able in a class where the motor needs to remain sealed.

 

 

John, Oops! I jumped in this thread late and didn't catch that they were sealed.

 

I'm surprised it's allowed in a sealed class. Back in the day, the local track would check Deathstar brush hoods for bending timing into them, which was not allowed.


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#44 MarcusPHagen

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 04:33 AM

John,

 

My suggestion was for the endbell not the toilet flusher. Basically same drilling technique but do away with the 'pin' and let the loctitie alone do the work. Drill and loctitie in 2 places for added security.

 

Bob K.

 

Loctite is anaerobic, & needs to be sealed away from oxygen in order to setup. The tighter the space, the better it "locks". Leave out the pin, & it MIGHT not harden except for the tighter spaces around the bushing. Put the pin in place, & the pin provides mechanical strengthe while the Loctite keeps the pin from vibrating out.


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