109 replies to this topic

[Rob Voska]

Ain't no guarantees in racin........

[Pablo]

Sounds like the OP's relationship with the raceway owner was bad, long before the motor failed.
I can smell a fart from a thousand miles away. My first clue was the statement "I told him to replace it".
With an attitude like that, I'd have shown you the door and told you not to return. Ever.
 
My advice is, those of you who are lucky enough to actually have a "local raceway", establish a good rapport with the owner and embrace him as you would a gem. Do everything you can to help him stay in business.

[Bill from NH]

I thought the OP posted a couple weeks ago he was done with slots because he had too many other activities to do. Apparently not so!

[MSwiss]

Mike Swiss if this was one of your regular guys and he spent his $ with you, what would have been your response?

First, if you want a non-regular guy to become a regular guy, you have to treat him as well as you treat the regular.

IOW, treat all your customers the same.

As far as taking care of defective merchandise, I've decided it's more productive to work harder to sell more stuff, to make up for lost profits, than to frustrate yourself trying to reason with some manufacturers.

Or just be upfront before you sell the part.

With a particular widget, I discovered a part that was once, well made, and precise, was now obviously out of whack.

I took an excellent picture of the piece, clearly showing the problem, texted the manufacturer with the picture, and followed up with a phone call.

I was told it was an optical illusion and when I assured him it wasn't, and multiple pieces were carefully checked with calipers, he countered by screaming at me.

I said "No problem, I'll take care of it".

When racers now ask to buy that widget, I just point out the problem, and explain what they'll need to do to make it work.

About 1/2 still buy it, and cobble it up to be usable, and the other 1/2 buy a similar C/R product, at twice the retail, that they don't have to cobble up.

Another example is front retro tires.

Before I ship them, I quickly measure them, to make sure they are over the minimum legal dimension.

Why?

Because in the past, I've shipped ones out that were not of legal diameter, and my customers, mostly chassis builders, were stymied, getting their finished product out to their customer.

And then I'm dropping everything to rush more legal ones out.

In the case of the undersize fronts, they were made good on, but it certainly didn't make up for the extra work fielding the correspondence, and reshipping.

Thankfully, they have been fine for awhile.

Except with now checking them, I discovered, although they are 3/32" axle, they had 1/16" keepers in the bottle.

I emailed the manufacturer, making him aware of it.

A few months later, I was still getting tires with wrong size and I made the manufacturer aware again.

This time I got a response (paraphrasing) "We discovered the issue a few months back, and corrected it".

Well, now recently, I shipped 5 pair out to a chassis builder.

3 had the correct 3/32" keepers, 1 had 1/16" keepers, and 1 didn't have any keepers.

I thought to myself "Who cares? I've wasted enough time on this. It's 60 cents worth of keepers in an $8.98 pr. of tires. If the customer has a problem I'll tell them to contact the manufacturer, or if need be, I'll tape the appropriate # of keepers on a business card, and mail it with a 50 cent stamp.

No one has complained yet, and as I posted a few days ago, my keeper sales have increased, both to the distributor and the retail customer, to where I had to buy my own product back, from the distributor, while I wait for a new shipment.

As far as motors, like I said, I can see both sides of the argument.

It is racing, but 1 lap and done, is a pretty bitter pill to swallow.

As far as replacing them, depending on the exact situation, I sometimes offer them a new one at my cost.

But sometimes I replace it N/C, shrugging my shoulders, and lamenting "Oh well, I lost a little money on that, but at least they'll continue paying me for track time, with essentially 100% profit margin."

Maybe I'll comment more on motors, after the OP reports back how the manufacturer handles his issue.

[swodem]

To clear things up, I have used hawk 7 in my koford chassis Gr Fs for 3 yrs, I know how to get a good gear mesh with my eyes closed. I broke the motor in per pkg instruction with low voltage, IT RAN 140 FEET and went up in smoke. I would expect a new motor from track owner, as did the other 3 gents who watched it Lol. If this is his policy, I will deal online since online is the only way to get warranty, that's if JK covers it. NOW, if it was a high dollar motor and it was run hot etc I can see the track owner passing the buck. I have won a couple Gr Fs with these motors and my daughter never lost running them so we know how to break them in. They have been pretty good handicap motors.

Why did the motor go up in smoke? What was wrong? Will only be brushes, comm or windings. Must have been major to smoke.
Did anyone have a look at it? It’s easy to see inside to eliminate the first two possibilities.
What is the track voltage?
Did you run it in with any liquids or cleaners?
What did JK say when you contacted them about it?


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[gatormark]

To one posters comment, we all in this area would do more slotcar racing if the track owner stocked parts, would occaisionaly clean the bathroom,maybe even sweep the floor once a year LOL. There is zero promotion for kids at all NADA,ZIP. But that's an issue he has to straighten out to be a good biz man. I have worked for a company for 16 yrs now who does flow measurement,water,fuel and LP gas. We warranty our products for one year. Almost all flow meters are now electric creating pulses and 4-20 milliamp signals. If the product goes bad 11 months and 29 days after purchase ya know what? it gets fixed or replaced period. Ya know why? because they are family now,they have purchased from us so we back it. 44 yrs our company has lived by customer service, it works. Im not trolling for sympathy over 12 dollars,the point is if this is how distributors and manufacturers back product its no wonder this hobby is going away. Ya don't see new tracks going up, only tracks for sale. have a great day.

[tonyp]

If the shops would take motors back no question I would simply take a slow one and lock up the gears and blow it up. I am sure everyone would do this that got a dud. Why not let’s try to kill another raceway.

Our Trinity motors for RC cost way more than a hawk and we offer no warranty through the dealer or distributor. All our warranty is direct to factory where the motor can officially be analyzed and if manufacturing fault is replaced no problem. We found many dealers do not have the knowledge to know if the fault was user operation or manufacture default.

Great planes used to take back anything from there dealers no question asked. The biggest hobby distributor in the world is now out of business this being one of the reasons.


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[Eddie Fleming]

Equating warranty and customer service on slot motors and normal retail items is like apples and oranges, it's just not the same thing.

[NSwanberg]

What a can-o-worms we have here. As perhaps the most regular racer at Downriver Speedway I don't expect a warranty or guarantee on anything I purchase in the slot car business. What Tony P said earlier. You just don't know what the customer has done with it.
 
I think most of the regulars think the same way. There is not more abuse than that handed to PS Super 16D on an oval track at 13.6 volts and most of us have seen one go up in its first race. Hurts don't it. But no one has ever asked for a refund that I know of. We just chalk it up to the luck of the draw. If the track owners were expected to guarantee these products, that are essentially built to be abused, we would have no commercial slot car racing.
 
If I were in an owners shoes I would probably be more likely to replace it for a new customer and hope my regulars understand. Bad for business you say? I guess that is why I am not a businessman.
 
My hat is off to all the track owners living the dream and providing us a place to race. Thank you all. See below.

[MSwiss]

To one posters comment, we all in this area would do more slotcar racing if the track owner stocked parts, would occaisionaly clean the bathroom,maybe even sweep the floor once a year LOL. There is zero promotion for kids at all NADA,ZIP. But that's an issue he has to straighten out to be a good biz man. I have worked for a company for 16 yrs now who does flow measurement,water,fuel and LP gas. We warranty our products for one year. Almost all flow meters are now electric creating pulses and 4-20 milliamp signals. If the product goes bad 11 months and 29 days after purchase ya know what? it gets fixed or replaced period. Ya know why? because they are family now,they have purchased from us so we back it. 44 yrs our company has lived by customer service, it works. Im not trolling for sympathy over 12 dollars,the point is if this is how distributors and manufacturers back product its no wonder this hobby is going away. Ya don't see new tracks going up, only tracks for sale. have a great day.

What does the condition of the raceway's bathroom have to do with a motor failing after one lap?

Like DZ pointed out, you seem to have an issue with the raceway, and IMO, you are just using the unfortunate situation with the motor to continue railing against him.

[gc4895]

Must be silly season. Slot cars are toys. Always have been. When these toys break after 15 months or 15 seconds, I always just go buy another one. I have never understood that there is any guarantee either expressed or implied. In this specialized hobby business I always appreciate my local track carrying parts and providing a track, but never providing any kind of guarantee or any obligation what-so-ever to replace a cheap (or expensive) mass produced toy motor or any ancillary part. In my 50+years of participating in this hobby this has always been understood.

[John Streisguth]

As a racer, I do not expect anything out of these cheap little motors.  I've had a few fail within a few laps.  Was I happy?  No. But IMO, that's just part of the situation with these things.  Now if I spent $100+ on a motor and it did that, I would be quite upset, and would expect the manufacturer to at least take a look at it an consider a replacement.  If not, I just wouldn't buy that product again.  But I don't expect the raceway owner to be party to it in either case.

 

That's my outlook, and don't expect (or need) anyone to agree with it

[Phil Beukema]

If JK doesn't have a return policy for the Slot Car Track Owner to reimburse the Owner for returned items, the Slot Car Track Owner shouldn't be expected to refund the Customer's money.

 

The Slot Car Track Owner is just a middle man providing on-the-spot sales for the convenience of the local racers. No Slot Car Track Owner is getting rich off of selling parts to his local racers. 

[swodem]

Why did the motor go up in smoke? What was wrong? Will only be brushes, comm or windings. Must have been major to smoke.
Did anyone have a look at it? It’s easy to see inside to eliminate the first two possibilities.
What is the track voltage?
Did you run it in with any liquids or cleaners?
What did JK say when you contacted them about it?


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Still waiting on answers to reasonable questions....


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[DocSlotCar]

Electrical parts usually are NOT refundable or replaced if defective by any shop.  that includes automotive or R/C or slot car or whatever.   

The issue can be improper installation by the end user. So the onus is on the user.  

Contacting the manufacturer can be one road. 


For example:

the slot car shop (me) put together the car with the motor or out of a RTR I double checked before sale.   Yes, I have replaced a motor or part that was defective in those instances because I did the work, checked the RTR or installed the new motor in someones slot car


The other side of the coin is if the end user set the car up even with a new item. that responsibility is on them. The shop owner can not b responsible for the set up, misuse, improper installation and so forth of a customers work.

Just saying this is from 50 plus years experience......


AS far as JK is concerned. They are usually VERY good about things like this. However, if you send the motor back via USPS priority mail, you will spend about 7 bucks or so and have to wait.... Not worth the brain damage........

Better to chuck it and purchase  a new motor....So the choice is yours....

[idare2bdul]

Racers seem content to buy cheap motors and expect a quality, long lasting product. I have a Hawk 7 in a Womp that has 7 races on it after about an hour break in starting with 2 volts and working up to 5. It has been both fast and reliable. I also have the same type of motor with a magnet that was loose and dragging on the armature, straight from the factory. These motors are way better than they were years ago when we first started running them in Retro races but you don't get much perfect at this price point.

 

Two of my friends recently ran an enduro with a Phoenix motor with no break in and it survived for hours till they decided to go home before the race was over. Still running well and being used for practice.

When people are willing to pay for a motor with a drill blank armature shaft, a decent commutator, good epoxy properly applied and cured and a good balance job, with consistent armature timing...

Then glue the magnets in with something better than CA glue...

Include a decent endbell, springs and brushes throw in real bronze bushings or ball bearings...

Do all this for under $20

AND HAVE IT DELIVERED TO MY DOOR BY THE EASTER BUNNY!

[gatormark]

I did outboard repair for 18 plus years as an OMC,MERC and YAMMIE Cert TECH. I installed trim motors that were installed between stern brackets, on salt water motors, warranty still good for one year. Ignition stators,triggers,sensors,power packs and switch boxes,all one year. I have had customers igntioion components fail a month out of warranty, call Manufacturer, give the guy the part for free and he pays labor. KEEP THE CONSUMER, the guys who spends the jack with ya happy happy happy. Lets see if JK emails me back, I hope they do.

[gatormark]

Racers seem content to buy cheap motors and expect a quality, long lasting product. I have a Hawk 7 in a Womp that has 7 races on it after about an hour break in starting with 2 volts and working up to 5. It has been both fast and reliable. I also have the same type of motor with a magnet that was loose and dragging on the armature, straight from the factory. These motors are way better than they were years ago when we first started running them in Retro races but you don't get much perfect at this price point.

 

Two of my friends recently ran an enduro with a Phoenix motor with no break in and it survived for hours till they decided to go home before the race was over. Still running well and being used for practice.

When people are willing to pay for a motor with a drill blank armature shaft, a decent commutator, good epoxy properly applied and cured and a good balance job, with consistent armature timing...

Then glue the magnets in with something better than CA glue...

Include a decent endbell, springs and brushes throw in real bronze bushings or ball bearings...

Do all this for under $20

AND HAVE IT DELIVERED TO MY DOOR BY THE EASTER BUNNY!

I too did proper break in, 140 feet, up in smoke Lol

[Bill from NH]

Any smart trackowner would have just given you a new motor. End of discussion. in your case, the trackowner has decided to p*ss off his local racing customers in order to save maybe $7. Mark, I assume you've locally talked up this situation too. 

[gatormark]

As of today JK has not returned my phone call or responded to emails............

[gatormark]

Is the owner of JK on this forum by any chance?

[havlicek]

Is the owner of JK on this forum by any chance?

 

He's around from time to time.

See, the way I see this (*and assuming the story is exactly as it was told), the track owner saw this all go down...so just as a "what the heck, I'll do a nice thing" kind of gesture, I'm surprised he didn't offer a replacement, and could have done so while saying it wasn't his normal policy.  Contacting JK just doesn't make sense given the "throwaway" nature of these motors and that there are bound to be some "smokers" (*as well as relative dogs) in any given batch.  It's kind of the nature of the beast the way I see it.

As for whether or not this all was "trolling", I'm taking the high road here and assuming it was simply "venting".  I don't know the OP, but even at my age...I'm still an optimist.

 

[MSwiss]

As for whether or not this all was "trolling", I'm taking the high road here and assuming it was simply "venting".  I don't know the OP, but even at my age...I'm still an optimist.

Some more "venting". Lol

http://slotblog.net/...ck/#entry728615

"The hobby is done......Mark Conner".

[gatormark]

JK refuses to replace the motor with a 140 feet of run time on itLOL.  Great way to do biz. Im now a proslot customer. I run the 7s in 3 flexis and 3 Gr F,s. Not any more. Im out.

[tonyp]

Adios amigo!