317 replies to this topic

[sportblazer350]

As I was adding a comment to another thread, this thought came to mind. My comparison is to the R/C hobby: cars, trucks, and planes. That hobby has seen significant growth in the last 10 years or so. Especially for R/C planes – in the past you had the choice to either assemble a plane kit or scratchbuild from plans. Nowadays you can purchase ARF (almost ready to fly) planes that have all of the balsa parts assembled and covered with radio gear installed. There are many trainer planes that make it easy to get into the air. All of this has worked well for me, and I used to assemble balsa control line plane kits back in the 1970s. R/C cars and trucks of all sizes come mostly built and ready to run out of the box. 

 

 As a slot car enthusiast of all scales, new and old, racing, collecting, etc., since the late '60s (I was just a little kid when the hobby started, so I saw all of the home set tracks in basements as well as the dawn of commercial raceways, and watched it until i got my first Aurora F1 set in the 1968 era) I have seen, just like all of you, the hobby's overall ups and downs. Manufacturers in and out of the hobby, being bought and sold, and many fading away. Fewer and fewer brick and mortar hobby shops and raceways with each passing year.

 

We don't need to rehash much of what has been already discussed: e.g. high rents, today's kids liking computers and video games, etc. None of that seems to negatively affect the growth in the R/C hobby, so what about the slot car hobby? What can be done?

 

And a quick thought about the R/C plane hobby: racing is not a big dynamic, and it is very highly organized and regulated today. Many publications in the magazine racks. New products and innovations all of the time, yet that does not negatively affect that hobby like it did slot car racing in the late 1960s. And people of all ages are involved, not just old timers. 

 

Please factor this into your thoughts and ideas: it seems to be an issue in this hobby that (a) only racing matters and (b) whatever type and scale that one races is the only way to go. Please factor in also that this is an overall hobby, not just commercial racing: there is the toy aspect, there is the home race set consumer that is not interested in racing; there are club racers, especially HO and 1/32 scales. So please take all of this into account: racing to toys.  

 

I got back into this hobby when in 1994 I bought my son his eighth birthday present: an HO Tyco slot car set, then dug out an Aurora pit case with T-Jets, AFX, TycoPro cars. From there I began to search out sources for HO cars, which lead me to purchase a Carrera 1/24 race set, and a hobby shop owner told me of a local club that raced 1/32 plasticars. I raced them for about 10 years straight. In between all of this I would find some vintage 1/32 and 1/24 cars, and the collecting bug bit once again. I have also raced all types of new to vintage 1/24 scale cars at commercial raceways. And for a while I have raced a variety of HO cars, from vintage T-Jets to new. So I speak from just about every aspect of this hobby.

 

The 1/32 plastic car hobby has been doing pretty well since I got into it back in the late 1990s. There are way more cars and race sets and parts now than in the 1960s, even though it is a small hobby overall. HO scale cars and sets are hanging in there, but nowhere near to the extent of the 1960s and 1970s. So I do see potential in the slot car hobby to thrive and grow.    

 

So, what is the slot car hobby missing? Automobiles and racing are popular worldwide.  

 

OK, I opened the door. Let the discussions begin. 

[Pablo]

Simple:  more tracks. I have to drive eight hours round trip to get to my closest track. 

 

I do it once a month, that's enough for me. How many other people in the world are willing to do that?

[Pappy]

When Cheater sees this you're going to be sorry you asked. 

[Cheater]

Glenn, this topic or ones very similar to it, have appeared at Slotblog numerous times, as you probably know.

 

I'm going to be very careful in responding to your question, as I think if I repeat the same thing I've said multiple times before there are certain people here who will become irritable and perhaps even nauseous.

 

What is the slot car hobby missing?

 

First, it doesn't consider itself a single hobby, but rather a loosely-related mishmash of mostly disconnected and uncooperating individual hobbies. Compare the situation with the slot car hobby to the situations of R/C, model railroading, and model aeronautics.

 

Second, no one in slot cars at any level (either singly or as a group) consistently promotes (or has ever consistently promoted) to the general public the overall enjoyment and positive experience the hobby delivers to its participants. The almost universal focus at every level of the hobby is simply to sell product and specifically more product than their competition (and everyone else selling something for slot cars is/was viewed as a competitor).

 

For me, these are the basic reasons why we are where we are with slot cars today.

[MattD]

Glenn, I think you are wrong about the interest in cars and racing today. My generation (I am 68) have lived for cars and racing  for over 50 years. I don't see anywhere near that interest in younger people. I do both  street rod ans muscle cars. The average guy is bald or has gray hair. There are very few guys under 50, maybe 5-8 percent. Drag racing has a higher number of young guys, but probably no more than 50%. NASCAR is dying on the vine. This afternoon I played (not watched) the truck race at Kentucky Speedway that ran last night. I would bet money there were more people at the track that were associated with NASCAR or the race teams than there were paying fans. It was embarrassing at how small the crowd was. Indy car is doing better than it has for awhile, but insiders point out that the 500 makes it look fantastic, but they don't get crowds like that anywhere else. F1, I know nothing about. We got people wanting electric cars that don't make noise!

 

I wish there was an answer that was easy, but I don't know what that could be. Basement racers are the future, I believe. In ten or twenty years, you can probably count commercial raceways in America on two hands. I think there will still be hobbyists in garages and basements, though. In 20 years,  if there are any 1/24 guys still alive, they will probably be doing 1/32 if they are still racing.

 

One important thing about R/C planes and cars, you don't need a physical building, all you need is a vacant field. That's a lot cheaper than a retail store.

[gc4895]

Slot cars might be characterized as two-dimensional drones. They require a great deal of care and feeding to operate correctly over time.  Races require a time commitment and are for individuals that enjoy competition as a part of their hobby activity. 

 

I think slot cars are really an "enthusiasts" activity. We, enthusiasts, enjoy playing with these anachronistic two-dimensional toy cars (drones) that constantly beg for tires and attention as we compete between and amongst ourselves for bragging rights as to the most laps accumulated on 40+ year old smooth furniture created by master craftsmen from another era that are housed in retail locations requiring large footprints to simulate real-world race tracks. There is a reasonably expensive initial entry cost for controllers, cars, etc., and a fairly steep learning curve of proper maintenance as well as expertise to be learned operating these toys. 

 

Other than these trivial issues, this is just another hobby.    

[Cheater]

One important thing about R/C planes and cars, you don't need a physical building, all you need is a vacant field. That's a lot cheaper than a retail store.

Matt, there's no arguing with the validity of this statement, but it bears noting that there are very successful hobbies and leisuretime activities that are saddled with much more expensive physical plants. Think golf and bowling, among others.

[jimht]

The 1/24 commercial slot car raceway fad began and ended long ago. It's pretty hard to rejuvenate a fad, let alone a non-existent 'hobby.'

 

1/32 and HO have not been so much a fad as a viable long term play at home toy (that is not dependent on big commercial tracks in high dollar retail locations).

 

The truth is that as raceways have closed because of unprofitability the tracks have usually been picked up cheap or free and recycled by hopeful enthusiasts, instead of the business being sold and reopening under new management.

 

This recycling has kept the idea alive that 1/24 is a 'hobby,' but, it's been the companies producing cheap RTR 'toy' 1/24 scale cars that fuel the new raceways and not the mythical 'hobby.'

 

When the raceway becomes dependent on the hobby and racing, and the sales of RTR cars decline, as they always do, the raceways fail. If this were really a hobby like other hobbies it wouldn't have been such a failure.

 

So, it might be possible to maintain the 'hobby' by focusing on clubs, but to rejuvenate the retail business would require different smaller track styles and cars that look like cars that are cheap enough to compete with all the other electronic toys that folks play with nowadays.

 

The only thing that has kept the 'hobby' going long term is guys like me that provide a false semblance of stability and how many are there like me, really...?

 

Even now, as long as I've been doing this, I still get that skeptical 'not again for me' attitude from someone wandering in that has seen too many raceways disappear elsewhere, despite my saying I've been in business within three miles of here for decades.

[Dave Buchholz]

 I will preffice this by saying I am not a track owner, just a racer. BUT I am a business man.

 

I can tell you one thing that will kill the hobby quickly, Buying things off the internet instead of your local track

 

Consider that your "local" track isn't a "not for profit" agency. They need to make money to stay open. They have bills to pay, rent, utilities, liability insurance, and the owner would actually like to pay bills in his personal life, so he needs a salary to take home.

 

 If you expect them to stay open on only track time, and race entry fees, the tracks are all doomed.

 IF you buy your parts online, you just deny the track owner the ability to create a profit from the sale of parts. They need a profit.

 If you want a track to race on, then stop trying to save two dollars, and let the track owners make a profit to pay their bills.

 

By the way, did the track owner charge you shipping, like the website did? How much do any of us save, when there is no track to go to?

 

 Nuff said.

 

. 

[Highnoon]

Slot cars might be characterized as two-dimensional drones. They require a great deal of care and feeding to operate correctly over time.  Races require a time commitment and are for individuals that enjoy competition as a part of their hobby activity. 
 
I think slot cars are really an "enthusiasts" activity. We, enthusiasts, enjoy playing with these anachronistic two-dimensional toy cars (drones) that constantly beg for tires and attention as we compete between and amongst ourselves for bragging rights as to the most laps accumulated on 40+ year old smooth furniture created by master craftsmen from another era that are housed in retail locations requiring large footprints to simulate real-world race tracks. There is a reasonably expensive initial entry cost for controllers, cars, etc., and a fairly steep learning curve of proper maintenance as well as expertise to be learned operating these toys. 
 
Other than these trivial issues, this is just another hobby.

 

I agree with your analysis, there are a number issues as I see in growing slot racing.

Finding newbies who could become enthusiasts and more importantly once in the door providing an environment where the newbie could potentially become an enthusiasts slot racer.

Not sure the best way to find newbies but the current enthusiasts would be the best place to start. They need to find and recruit.

To build the right environment we need to have an extremely low entry cost in money, time, and expertise to get them to be competitive racers. If they don't become competitive soon then most lose interest and quit.

Building the environment would start with picking a class of car that features good handling cars that are relatively fast and are low maintenance. For our track I would pick Group F wing cars which are easy to drive and fast and low maintenance.

Then we would need we would need some type of screening which I havent thought enough about but something to weed out people who are clearly not cut out for slot racing.

All newbies have to do is show up. No cars, no controllers, no outlay of large start-up costs.

You hold races where each enthusiasts brings two cars to the track. Each newbie pays for whatever the entry fee/track time to raceway. And he pays a small fee to the car owner to race one of the cars. Say $10 to track and $10 for car. The car owner now mentors the guy on how to race during say a 30-60 minute practice session.

Then all the newbies get a practice race, say 1 minute on 8 lanes. The enthusiasts would coach.

Then we combine newbies and enthusiasts in the main event racing together.

Now the big difference is that the cars would be assigned lanes permanently for both races. When you switch lanes you will be driving someone else's car. This will mean the fastest car will not win but the best driver will. This will teaching driving skills first over building the fastest car which undoubtedly requires large capital investments to start.

If we have more newbies then cars then we would need to have some sort of qualifying that took the form of laps and sections with everyone using the same car.

I would put some sort of time limit on how long he can continue to rent cars before the newbie has to commit and at least show up with a car purchased from owner or track. The enthusiasts would then continue to mentor the newbie until they either started becoming enthusiasts or say this isnt for them and moved on.

Comments.

[NSwanberg]

I still say we need to get the scum out of 1/24 commercial slot car racing and by that I mean the tire scum and spray glue. That means silicone coated sponge rubber tires where the customer cleans your track with tack cloth.

 

I think HO will be around the longest but right now it is harder to ramp up in HO than 1/24th. HO seem so fractionalized to me. Just about the time you figure out what products to use the manufacturer goes away.

 

When I win  half a billion dollars in the lottery I plan on organizing as a REIT about 200 slot car/hobby centers with up to four placed around the fifty largest urban centers in the United States. The slot car race way owner will have to run the open air mall as well.

 

Only one brand of slot car product will be allowed and components will be manufactured at the raceways and shipped by UPS to other raceways in the circuit for final assembly. All controllers will be resistor controllers.

 

Then I will start the Galactic Retro Racing Organization or G.R.R.O. which will become what Retro racing should have been in the first place

 

Anybody ready for a GoFundMe?

[Pablo]

I can tell you one thing that will kill the hobby quickly, Buying things off the internet instead of your local track

 

Can you please direct me to this legendary 'local track' you, and many others, speak of?

[Bill from NH]

The closest commercial raceways to me are in MA & CT, both hours away. When local raceways did exist, most of my spending was local. As these raceways disappeared, so has my local spending. I don't buy much these days, but I'll continue to buy whatever I want, wherever I want. And never look back.

 

Pablo, Rochester, NY has a commercial raceway. Rochester, NH had them too, but the last one there closed  in the early 2000's.

[MSwiss]

Nelson,

I've said it before.

Sticky tracks aren't the greatest thing for a new person, walking into a raceway, to cope with.

But, IMO, not the reason most don't get involved.

[NSwanberg]

When I approached my beloved about trying racing at Downriver Speedway she replied, "I don't want to hang out with a bunch of old men yelling about 'TRACK!'"

[shadow]

1) Rent is too high for most track owners.

2) Johnny's mom doesn't want to solder or take Johnny to track.

3) Tracks are too far away.

4) No reset button.

[MattD]

Greg, you have to factor in to the space issue of comparative, hobbies and pastimes, that bowlers may outnumber slot car guys probably 500 to 1.    Golfers probably 1,000 to 1.      Given those numbers,  the money generated and supporting these hobbies is grossly different than 1/24 racing.

 

 

Lots of good thoughts here, but I think realistically we just accept that 1/24 commercial racing is our hobby, now.     It is probably going to wither away and a raceway will be a rarity in a few years and  most of us will not be here to talk about it.   I am referring only to 1/24.    Just enjoy it now.

 

Buy products from your local raceway....the one kind of chassis they run or the one kind of motor they run, or the one kind of tire they run.   Have items special ordered  and in a couple weeks they accumulate enough orders to send them in.      

[mgerbetz]

1) Exposure-Get out there and sell, sell, sell!
2) Support-Support your sport! Support the industry.
3) Leadership-The boys that started all this; we need your advice.
4) Sponsorship-Dont you think bigger Racing Industry entities would benefit from what we offer the automotive and racing industries ? Which is exposure for them at the intro level.

Just some crazy thoughts and ideas.
MG

[MSwiss]

Greg, you have to factor in to the space issue of comparative, hobbies and pastimes, that bowlers may outnumber slot car guys probably 500 to 1.    Golfers probably 1,000 to 1.      Given those numbers,  the money generated and supporting these hobbies is grossly different than 1/24 racing.

Matt,
Greg needs a 1 week suspension, from posting, for using golf in any kind of argument or comparison to 1/24 slot racing.

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[bbr]

Slotcar racing is not as immersive as other forms of racing hobbies. Online simulator racing video gaming, FPV drone racing, etc. Slotcar racing pales compared to what is available.

[Pappy]

If they made a "safer" soldering iron, one that didn't burn your fingers I think more people would race slot cars. 

 

Just being facetious.

[Dave Crevie]

So if soldering is the issue, why have the 3D printed chassis not taken off? Plus they could be sold RTR easier than

the wire and brass cars. 

[Highnoon]

I’m 67 and commercial slot racing started with my generation and will end with my generation without the next generation picking up the hobby. Anyone have any real concrete ideas on how to get the next generation involved or are we just going to let it die.

[bbr]

HO and commercial 1/24 racing will most likely die. 1/32, which most closely resembles 1:1 cars and racing, will continue on.

[Dave Crevie]

1/32nd is losing impetus in my area.