317 replies to this topic

[MattD]

All I can say is maybe when we have this discussion next year it will be more positive than what we see now.    Hopefully there will be 2 new guys for every one of us that passes to the next life.

 

I do wish you all the luck and would support your efforts if you were local.  I would even mail order parts from you if you  had what I used and could keep a decent stock.

[sportblazer350]

I wish only good luck to anybody trying to expand slot racing in any format.     Not much we haven't discussed about this and  nothing changes except more commercial tracks shut down.   Clubs still do OK, not sure if they actually expand, but they don't  have to lock the doors.   

 

For whatever reason, Parma the largest and longest lived 1/24 supplier no longer seems to have much interest in getting product made and in stock. 

 

 Online sales of 132 cars must have changed some the last couple years.   Several of the companies that pushed product a few years ago now have no production or only release plans for future but no product.     That may be due to a junky cars they were making.      

 

This covid is the perfect storm for  commercial track failure.    Let's just hope guys that rely on a commercial track for playing will have a track to go back to.    

Matt- the 1/32 plasticar market is larger now than ever. There are more companies making 1/32 cars than when there was a growth spurt in the late 1990's when Ninco and Fly were kings. A lot of smaller makers have come and gone, including Ninco, but that market is alive and well. 

[sportblazer350]

 

The spread of solid Slot Car Shops across the fruited plane has become rather thin. I don't expect a two for one change for next year. All I am saying is that I want to see more of a positive viewpoint reflected in our own circles. We have to believe in our own hobby before we can expect any body else to. 

 

Michael Jr- well said: we do need a more positive viewpoint of our hobby, we need to believe in our hobby before we can expect others to do so.

 

My general thoughts since I started this thread remain the same: the slot car hobby has many dynamics: racing, collecting, home, club and raceways; all scales from h.o., o-gauge, 1/43, 1/32 and 1/24.  The only thing that has changed since the 60's is that now we have collectors. For growth I still see the same needs: manufacturers that advertise beyond our own little cottage circles and blogs such as this one, and now we have plenty of options to advertise free using social media; in racing circles- to embrace all of the different scales, types of cars, clubs, raceways; to stop the endless bickering over what type of cars and racing is the best and stop condemning others and what they enjoy. And for clubs to go beyond the basements and race at raceways as well, in order to expand their perspective of this hobby, and to help keep it alive. 

 

  Can raceways embrace and be a part of club racing? I think so. I have done that in h.o. and 1/32 plasticar circles- we raced at both home club tracks and at a raceway. I would like to see h.o. and 1/32 racers at commercial raceways have a track to race on. Maybe i'm just dreaming? We had it in the 60's, why not now. 

[eshorer]

The income has to come from somewhere. Other than track time, rental cars and controllers, selling merchandise (including cars, parts to build them, controllers, tools, boxes to carry everything, etc.) and renting the facility for parties, what is there? Maybe an online store to sell merchandise. SO.... how to best get that income? 

(This is all stuff touched on before, but I'm just thinking it through)

1. Provide a comfortable, clean, well-lit facility that's easy to get to (and easily visible) and has parking in a safe area.  

2. Put in interesting tracks for a variety of types of racers (at least a fast track like a King or Hillclimb, a drivers' flat track, a drag strip, a 1/32nd scale track perhaps with beautiful scenery and people, an HO track....   and anything else that enough people want!).

3. Stock it with with cars (all scales, including 1/32nd scale RTR), parts, and tools that the racers need.

4. Be a hands-on, knowledgeable owner who is a pleasure to deal with.

5. Have regular racing programs for those who want them.

6. If there's time, reach out to potential customers, be it a mobile track to boys/girls clubs, schools, hot rod and other car groups etc.

Unless the overhead is so high (rent, electricity, etc.) that you're too close to breaking even, it should grow. 

Keep that optimism going. There are PLENTY of people who would love a facility like I described above.

Eddie

PS, I'd like to hear of the other important things I've left out.

Eddie

[MattD]

Glen, I only know what I read in MRE's weekly postings about business and slot car companies ability to deliver cars on time and not just tell of plans.   If you read their postings about the Hobby show in Germany this year, they were really surprised by the lack of the usual vendors of 1/32 product.    

 

I hope for good luck for all types and scales of slot racing.   All the hope in the world won't make it happen.   For years now we've read lots of posts just like the posts above.    I can't see any expansion in that time.   I still say good luck to anybody wanting to open a commercial track.   

[Rob Voska]

Ever think of how to drive people AWAY from slot cars?  Just do the opposite!

 

Imagine knowing nothing about a subject other than you had a set as a kid or a friend has a small plastic track in their basement and trying to learn about slot cars. They stop into a track and start asking questions.  What do they find out?  No standardization.  No leadership. No magazine. Every track and series has their own rule set.  To many choices of equipment. Can't purchase a race ready car.  Obsolete equipment.  To much support equipment. To many body's. To much down force.  To many tire choices.  To many hub choices. To many chassis choices, To many classes. Then you expect someone to buy & sort through the ever growing selection of "cheap motors" that one needs to buy 100 at a time or not participate on the many flat out wide open tracks.  Everything leading to "racing" instead of running slot cars.  They never experienced that when they were playing with HO or scalectric.  They want something simple and fun.

 

You can't blame someone for not getting involved when anyone looking at it makes the one simple logical choice available to them.  Don't get involved.

[MSwiss]

Rob,
You're still an awesome guy, and do all you can at races, to help others, but not being involved long enough, nor being a raceway owner, you still operate on 2 or 3 fallacies.
 
Not being a raceway owner, you only know what you prefer.
 
Being a sometimes racer, I know what I prefer, but as a raceway owner, I know what the majority of people want.
 
You think racers want a challenge, because that's what you prefer, and what I also prefer, as a racer.
 
But as a 15 year raceway owner, I know the majority prefers easy.
 
So if a better handling body is introduced, most are all for it.
 
And your 100 cheap motor argument is getting old.
 
I raced restricted classes with all U.S. built, more expensive motors.
 
Guys didn't buy 100, but the ones that liked to run in front, bought all they could afford.
 
100 $13 motors, or 26 $50 motors, it's still $1,300.
 
When I was only racing restricted motors, a lot, if not most of tracks, were not very good.
 
And it still sucked if you didn't have a top I15 motor.
 
Driving might get me into 3rd, but I wasn't going to win.
 
My career didn't take off until I started racing opens.
 
Racing on flat tracks creates a whole different thing to complain about.
 
XXXX has the home track advantage.
 
That's why the out-of-towners all race on the King, at the Sano, and quite a few skip the Fiedler Flat.
 
That's why in the Retro races, in Ohio, you see more entries at MMW, where the motor is important, than at Fastrax, where it really isn't, (or certainly not as much)
 
Gugu is a great driver, and he still felt compelled to build a duplicate of the 2020 ISRA Worlds track, so he can get in as much track time as possible.
 
You see a flat track as fun.
 
So do I.
 
But the new person sees it as walking around more, to put his car back on.

[Don Weaver]

 

 

But as a 15 year raceway owner, I know the majority prefers easy.

 

 

But the new person sees it as walking around more, to put his car back on.

 

I agree with you, Mike.  I believe that the tracks a new raceway puts in will largely determine its success.  Too much walking and not enough driving sends the newbies out the door...

 

Don

[jimht]

Rob,

 

For the vast majority, racing is about "the racing", not what they're driving.

 

Focusing on improving the performance is interesting but doesn't appeal to all or even many...being competitive is what matters. A full track with fairly equal cars that have to be driven or they'll crash, along with wrecks that even out the playing field is way more fun than sitting around tinkering.

 

Fast cars on slow tracks is more fun than slow cars on fast tracks. This is why restrictions on equipment to make the cars "easier to drive" always lead to cherry pickers and cherry picking, likewise "faster" tracks.

 

The "Hobby" is multi-faceted but the "fun" is a track full of cars driven by people having a good time and it's even better for the business to provide that than a weekly or monthly get together for the tinkerers.

[MattD]

Every car the guys run on our track is run by me on the orange lane with a freshly wiped track (tack cloth) and clean tires.   Faster than 3.95 and we change gearing, slower then  4.10 we change gearing.  Every car is right at 4 seconds.    Every guy wins a  couple races every nite.    Nobody runs away from anybody else.   Lots of time the guy that gets the best start and is a foot or so ahead stays that way for several laps, everybody right on his tail.    

 

 

we all have fun and nobody has the  killer instinct that they have to be faster than everybody else.   it usually comes down to who crashes or gets crashed!

[sportblazer350]

Glen, I only know what I read in MRE's weekly postings about business and slot car companies ability to deliver cars on time and not just tell of plans.   If you read their postings about the Hobby show in Germany this year, they were really surprised by the lack of the usual vendors of 1/32 product.    

 

I hope for good luck for all types and scales of slot racing.   All the hope in the world won't make it happen.   For years now we've read lots of posts just like the posts above.    I can't see any expansion in that time.   I still say good luck to anybody wanting to open a commercial track.   

thanks Matt. It seems that some of the responses are specifically at a good commercial raceway model. That is is only one aspect of the overall hobby. My original topic is- what will it take to see growth in this hobby. It all starts with the manufacturers and ends with the consumer. I try to give my own examples of being in this hobby since 1970 or so, in every scale, home, racing, collecting, clubs and commercial raceways. I am not asking how to run a successful raceway. I am looking at the overall big picture. 

 

   We do not have the slot car and slot car/model car magazines anymore with manufacturers placing ads. We no longer have large mail order catalogs such as Auto World anymore. We have 1/32 scale plasticar manufacturers, a shrinking h.o. scale market, and a steady commercial raceway 1/24 scale market- but none of that is connected on any level. We had a small slot car magazine effort that attempted to bring some of this together, but that folded. 

 

  This is where I was hoping that the discussion would go- that hopefully some of those in the industry leaders besides, and including, raceway owners would chime in. However it does not look that is going to happen. Not sure what more I can say except that I will do my small part and continue to promote the part of the hobby that I am currently enjoying and that is 1/24 scale vintage and jail door racing here in New Jersey. See my Facebook Group: NJ Vintage Slot Car Racing  and the vintage slot car club that I belong to here in Slotblog: the C.A.R.S. Vintage Slot Car Club. And I am also trying to get back to 1/24 scale Hardbody racing as well as build up a 1/32 scale plasticar racing club at  a friend's track here in NJ.

 

  I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions. I will have to look at MRE, not sure what that is, as I have been out of the 1/32 scale plasticar circles for about 10 years. I just see new releases online so I know that it appears to be growth in that segment of the hobby.   

[MattD]

Glenn, the manufacturers are about as organized as the US trying to buy PPE for this pandemic.   No right hand knows what any  left hand is doing.  The worst part is none of them care.    

 

You mention a shrinking HO market, I am surprised at that, I figured HO was still the most popular scale.    I don't see the 1/24 market as stable, but that is a matter of opinion and my opinion about 1/24 isn't popular on this forum,.   On this forum it's much nicer to believe there is growth potential for commercial 1/24 and it can have a resurgence.    I believe in Santa Claus, too.   Just be sure any future raceways are built on one level so we don't have to navigate stairs with our walkers.

 

 

1/32 is the strongest now, almost all of that is in garages and basements.    There is a discussion about production levels of  rtr cars on another forum and people with inside knowledge mention the numbers of 500-1500 as a total production of most cars.    That is worldwide.    Given the popularity of 1/32, you can see this still is a very small hobby.    I am the odd/ODD/wierd guy that races 1/24 at home with basic 1960 design cars.    I will get by if the day comes I switch to a smaller 1/32 track at home and start building 1/32 cars.   Just so I can  continue to enjoy it for another 10-15 years.    I personally don't care what happens when I'm gone.    Son in law wants the building and wood track,  He probably won't care by that time!    

 

It's a fun hobby and all the different aspects there are, at least we can all share info and opinions on the internet. Enjoy today.

 

I ask and let anybody come race that is interested or wants to see what it is about.   Really made the day for this friend and his grandsons.   They are staying the grandparents till this crap is over and it safe to be out in public again.   I gave them a key and they have about 6 slower cars to play with.    They come and go as they want with no one else around.    On the phone the older boy told me it more funner every time they do it!!

 

 

[MSwiss]

Glenn, the manufacturers are about as organized as the US trying to buy PPE for this pandemic.   No right hand knows what any  left hand is doing.  The worst part is none of them care.    

I don't understand that statement.

Elaborate.

[MattD]

Mike we are one country made up of 50 states,   Thru this whole pandemic purchases and supplies of personal protection equipment has been one of the overwhelming  problems.     We locate PPE for sale, my state bids on it and thinks they have it bought. Then they find out another state has bid more so we don't get it.  Then the other state finds out the federal gov't has outbid them and now they  are buying it.   The states compete with each other and the federal gov't to get supplies for all Americans.      Looks like an organized  approach would be the fed gov't being the only buyer and then  spreading the supplies (at cost) to the states as needed.   

 

 

If you owned a company with 3 production lines making the same refrigerators,   would you want your 3 lines bidding against each other for the same type of handles or would you want to be the only bidder and then provide the handles to your lines as needed?    That is the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

 

Our slot hobby is exactly the same.   HO manufacturers could care  less about working with 1/24 manufacturers on advertising and 1/32 rtr manufacturers and race set companies could care less about marketing the fun  of racing in your club room with HO slot companies, God forbid they would show a couple home racers playing at home and then going to a commercial track and racing some 1/24 cars.   The whole hobby is disorganized and   no scale or segment works with any other to further the hobby.   As I said none of them seem to care.   

 

Obviously tv advertising is very expensive, but a shared commercial for 30 seconds showing the fun and excitement of slot racing (all scales represented) would be a great thing for the slot racing hobby. 

[MattD]

Actually I guess there isn't any advertising for the slot hobby.   

[MSwiss]

I don't see how Auto World(HO) has a connection, to say, JK Products.
 
Even if there was such a thing as slot car TV commercials, what would motivate AW, to spend their precious commercial time, to help promote JK?
 
That would be like Chevy having  a commercial, showing a couple guys, in their 20's, in a Camaro, driving to a Ford lot, and getting out, and checking out a Shelby Mustang.
 
Please give an actual example of what you're talking about.
 
Something like McDonalds running a commercial that ends with the actor quit chewing his Big Mac, long enough, to blurt out "Go to Popeyes once in awhile. Fried chicken is tasty, too."
 
And what does bidding, and outbidding on PPE's, have to do with growing slot racing?
 
I don't see an analogy at all.
 
I think you just wanted an excuse to talk about that.

[MattD]

You ever see a commercial by your state DNR advertising to take a kid fishing?    They don't tell you what kind of fish to fish  for, what kind of boat to use or to fish from the bank, they just advertise fishing as a general hobby.
 
I don't think car manufacturers have to advertise the concept of owning cars to people anymore, I believe 100% of the public knows what a car is and what it does.
 
My reference to the PPE was a way to show how people in the same family  are much better off if Mom buys food and cooks for everyone.  Much better than every person out for their self and working against each other and  making individual trips to the store and cooking their own meal.   Seems a pretty simple analogy and the PPE is an example that is very current. 
 
 
Maybe it is to no ones advantage to join together with an ad promoting all slot racing.  Somehow I think that can only help the whole hobby.

[eshorer]

I sort of feel like we've danced around one issue, and that's the actual amount of money that is earned by track owners, distributors, and manufacturers. It's just not "polite" to ask. What we do know is that many have lost, because they drop out of the hobby. For those that are doing well, it's unlikely that they are doing so well that they can put much into advertising beyond the Penny Saver. OK, let's upgrade that....   Facebook and Google? Anyway, it takes time and expertise to advertise and get the word out, whether it's on social media or making contact with car clubs and schools to get special programs going to get new blood into the raceways. One reason clubs continue is just that: There's very little overhead. For those who are willing to put in the time and money to get a shop up and running, it's pretty clear what needs to be done to grow that particular business. As I said before: Make an inviting place in a safe neighborhood and parking, with an enthusiastic owner/operator who meets the needs and wants of the customers, develops race programs if they want that, and sells EVERYTHING they need so they don't go running to eBay. And then word of mouth will take over. As far as growing things on a national or international level, it would take many solid shops like I described before there could be a "union" or national organization to get those extra funds for more widespread advertising. 

At this point, I just want my local raceway to be able to reopen!

"Don't it always see to go, you don't know what you got till it's gone." -- Joni Mitchell

Eddie

[MattD]

Michael there is no reason to bow out.   We have lots of opinions and one more  just keeps it interesting.  Don't give up on us.   

 

I think i'm singing to the choir, but the few times slots have popped up in an ad on tv we all get excited.    I think there was something with Scalex in it last year, you had the bit in Ford Vs Ferrari movie.   We all noticed that stuff, but we are slotters.   Maybe 30 seconds  by a great production company showing a kid with home set HO, then 2 years later an out of the box, 1/32, then a year later expanded and landscaped, then the entry to the commercial track and flexis  on a big track.    

 

I do realize there is no profit in slot cars and nobody makes any extra to put into an effort like this.   It would sure be nice, though.

[Tim Wilkins]

What will it take to see growth in this hobby?

 

Kanye West shooting a music video with his wife while racing on his recently purchased Gerding King track.

[MSwiss]

I sort of feel like we've danced around one issue, and that's the actual amount of money that is earned by track owners, distributors, and manufacturers. It's just not "polite" to ask. What we do know is that many have lost, because they drop out of the hobby. For those that are doing well, it's unlikely that they are doing so well that they can put much into advertising beyond the Penny Saver.

There might be exceptions, but I doubt any manufacturer is doing so well they have a 5 or 6 figure advertising budget.

 

I would like to know what happened to the TOA and I would love to see that come back.

It may of been explained before.

 

I honestly don't remember when or why it died.

 

My boss, Stu Koford, went to the convention every year, but as GM, I always had to stay at the factory to run things.

 

I would be interested to know what the strategy was, and what went on at them.

 

My only recollection was hearing about the IROC races Parma would hold, and how existing slot racers would show up, and dominate them.

 

I'm not sure if there was any attempt to attract newcomers, or if any participated.
 

[MSwiss]

It seems like I hear about a fair people, who attended.

 

I was hoping at least one of them would chime in.

 

I'm most curious how the races were promoted.

 

IOW, did new people race?

[Clyde Romero]

Here at Atlanta Slot Car Raceway we’ve started a box stock class with the JK LMP cars and it has taken off, even with the challenges brought by this virus in our country.

 

During the past week we had 8 racers! 

 

The majority of racers want a even chance of winning a race pure and simple; by having a box stock class where you can only change the braid and parts that break has given all of our racers an even chance at winning a race and the cars look like cars!

 

When we tech the cars we make sure they are stock and the winner gets his car closely scrutinized.

 

This has brought racers back in our community and track.

[Phil Hackett]

Unobtainium has discouraged more from racing than just about anything else other than Cubic Bucks, but then those two things go together.

 

As for the TOAA: I think the fact it is hard to herd cats was learned over time. One example.... There was a demand for the TOA to issue standard rules for racing. The idea was to have a Universal Set of Rules (USR) so racers could travel anywhere and be able to use the equipment they had without buying new just for the local raceway and still be competitive. I sat in a meeting with track owners and the TOAA committee who was looking into establishing these rules and it was a mess.

 

I forgot the class they were going over but the whole meeting got hung up on shunting motor brushes. Yes, motor brushes. You know, that little piece of wire that costs about $.20 and takes all of 3 minutes to install? The track owners were evenly divided over this subject with some saying most of the racers in the class at their facilities would quit if A) shunting brushes were ALLOWED  or b) shunting brushes were NOT ALLOWED. I knew right then that the USR wasn't going to happen.

 

The TOA also would rent a room at the convention, have a track erected and then RESTRICT the **public**, ya know the potential paying customers who just might find out they like slot cars, from coming in to find out what was going on and more about the industry. Massive face palming ensued.

 

As for the Big Bucks advertising: there is a prevalent attitude industry-wide of "Why should I advertise when it might cause my competitor to receive increased sales at my cost?" Nothing more needs to be said here.

 

So, we have a small niche cottage industry that exists through inertia and recollection of youthful good times, not of organization with direction.

[MG Brown]

Here at Atlanta Slot Car Raceway we’ve started a box stock class

 

A hearty THANK YOU to Clyde and the gang at ASR for giving this idea a try. I hope that it will have huge success and that I can come and race as a visitor sometime soon.

 

 

IMO slot car racing has needed a true "box stock" class for some time now. I'm pleased to see Downriver Speedway and ASR leading the way with this entry level LMP class.