35 replies to this topic

[strummer]

Since this is indeed an "orphan", I thought it best to post this project here.

 

As I've mentioned before, listening to Sid Collins, the "Voice of the 500", was heady stuff for me back in the early 60s; it was my introduction, I suppose, to auto racing and left an indelible mark in my mind. So naturally enough, I have been drawn to Indy cars of that era...and earlier.

 

When I got back into this hobby (in 1/32) I of course had to do a re-build of the  Strombecker Watson Roadster. Now that I'm moving onto 1/24, I found that similar hard body models are/were lacking in this scale.

 

In the course of my (almost daily) eBay hunts, I discovered a model I did not know existed: the Aurora 1954 Indy winning "Fuel Injection Special", driven by Bill Vuckovich. When the chance came to obtain a rather crappy sample, I took it and it arrived today, just as you see it here (3 wheels and all):

 

 

After an hour or two of careful disassembly, here are the parts I think I can use to make some sort of slot car out of this mess:

 

 

One of the advantages of buying old items like this is that they typically weren't very carefully assembled in the first place, so taking them apart all these years later can usually be done fairly easily.

 

I also purchased and received today this chassis:

 

 

I bought this because I need a chassis that is adjustable and does not have press-on wheels. It was listed as a Strombecker, but I'm not positive it is one: perhaps someone here can verify the make. It's actually a very nice chassis; runs well and is probably too nice for me to use on this project; but I'm going to try anyway. It'll need some longer axles (which are on the way) and obviously larger wheels and tires.

 

Any suggestions (short of looking for a different hobby) will be most appreciated. 

 

Mark in Oregon

 

 

[don.siegel]

Hi Mark, 

 

That is indeed a Strombecker chassis, with their Scuttler motor; they used different versions of this basic chassis on both 1/32 and 1/24 cars, including a 1/32 Mercedes W154 GP car from the 50s that would be about the same wheelbase as this one, and it would be a good choice - with bigger wheels the ground clearance would be kind of high, but it should be fine just as a runner. 

 

The Aurora Indy winning models are great, but the scale is kind of in-between, neither 1/32 nor 1/24 - there should be a thread on here somewhere where we discussed the actual scale - I think it came out to about 1/28, but to be confirmed. 

 

It's not a very rare chassis either, so go ahead an use it on this car! You're right that there weren't that many Indy roadsters made, in either scale in fact... kind of odd given all the American companies making slot cars! But there are some nice Lancer clear plastic bodies, if you even want to get into that part of the hobby.. 

 

Don 

 

PS: for instance, this one driven by Downton "Dow" Jones, Parnelli's little known younger brother...  

 

 

 

[strummer]

Thanks Don, for the info and photos. Those thin-bodied cars look okay with some add-on "3D" parts attached.

 

Turns out I have some 2 1/4" axles, so just for laughs I put those on and kind of laid everything out, just to see...

 

 

I'll have to cut a section out of the bottom of the nose piece to allow for the pick-up guide, etc.

 

I have no idea how I'll eventually attach the body to the chassis; but I think with some "man size" wheels and tires, (and a lot of luck!) this might actually work out. 

 

If anyone here has any ideas, please feel free... 

 

EDIT: I found the article regarding the "Indy Winners"; you guys really have discussed everything!

 

Mark in Oregon

[Ramcatlarry]

I think your body is the 1/24  Monogram Kurtis 500 static kit.

[Alan Dodson]

No, it's the Aurora 1953 & 1954 Indy 500 winner driven by Bill Vukovich. The Monogram Kurtis Indy Roadster is larger and much longer than this car. I have several of the Monogram kits and have had the Aurora kit also. The Monogram kit is much closer to scale than the Aurora kit.

[strummer]

No, it's the Aurora 1953 & 1954 Indy 500 winner driven by Bill Vukovich. The Monogram Kurtis Indy Roadster is larger and much longer than this car. I have several of the Monogram kits and have had the Aurora kit also. The Monogram kit is much closer to scale than the Aurora kit.

 

Guess I'll have to get one of those, too.

 

Thanks for the heads-up, Alan!

 

Mark in Oregon

 

Edit: just found one for $23 bucks; should be here in a week or so. 

[Dave Crevie]

This is the Monogram Kurtis 500 racer. We ran these on an oval when I belonged to a club. They looked so cool drifting around the corners, which is why the

rears are worn so small.

 

 

 

We also did sprint cars. Just as much fun.

 

 

 

 

 

[MattD]

Dave, my favorite old race cars!   I bet it was fun racing those old  cars.     I like old stuff.

 

 This body came from Big Donkey resins (Larry Baisch).    He makes great bodies and reasonably priced.     I cast a couple bodies in my mold that was maybe 20 years old and they were pretty bad, so I bought one from Larry and was going to make a new mold, but for $25, his were so good with all trim that I didn't waste time making a new mold and just have bought them from him since then. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[strummer]

Dave

 

Wow, those look great; thanks for posting them. 

 

Could you show a picture or two of the underside and maybe give a little info as to what you did/used to power those?

 

Also, I've received a couple of comments about my plan to use larger diameter wheels/tires on this: as it stands now, the wheels on that chassis are only (5/8") which seems a little small for 1/24...(?) Didn't these old roadsters have rather large wheels?

 

Every little bit helps...thanks!

 

Re: the "Scuttler" chassis: I have some other examples of 1/32 Stombecker stuff, but this is far and away the nicest and smoothest runner of any of them. Almost makes you wonder why they bothered with those other types...

 

Mark in Oregon

 

Edit: Matt: Nice. What chassis did you use?

[don.siegel]

Cheaper plastic my boy, cheaper plastic! and easier snap-together assembly. 

 

Strombecker was between a toy and hobby manufacturer, but their earlier stuff is more toy oriented, so sold in department stores, etc. - ie, large volume! 

 

Those are nice bodies Matt - you mean with all the chrome accessories for $25??? What type of chassis do you use? 

 

Don 

[strummer]

Don

 

 

Regarding that "Scuttler" again:

 

When I first saw it, I was thinking "Atlas", which is why in my first post I asked for verification.

 

In the "Independent Scratchbuilder" forum, under "Vintage Motors", under "Pittman Era", under "Atlas 406" ( ) this photo was posted:

 

 

I just now took this picture of my motor:

 

 

Perhaps not identical, but very similar; down to the brass guide shoe holder. Hence my thinking mine was an Atlas motor. Also, what's with the red stuff between the armature and the commutator? Is that the "epoxy" I keep reading about, and if so, what's that for?

 

Having dealt with many Pittman motors during my HO scale model railroading "career", I'm not surprised this runs so well...

 

In the 5th post on this thread, Alan states that the Monogram Kurtis is "larger and much longer than this car." If that is indeed the case, I won't be able to use this chassis with that body since this is already as extended as far as it'll go: 3 11/16": axle to axle centers. It just barely fits this Aurora body, so I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for something that will fit the Monogram...

 

Mark in Oregon

[MattD]

I used a Sprintsplus frame for the dirt racer,   Cut it and stretched it with a bottom brass pan soldered for additional weight and  to make the length right.    The crash bars are solid 1/16 brass.    They are soldered where they cross the top of the front axle kickups and have a piece of tubing where they have screws going into  the  body at the ends.   There is a short piece of brass tubing soldered where the rear axles come out the sides of the frame on each side and the rear bars solder to it and then screw to the body same as the front does.   

 

Here is a picture of Larrys body for $25

The bottom frame in this pic is Sprintsplus and it has been cut in half and extended.   You can see where the bars can be soldered to the front axle holders and how a short brass tube on each side of the rear axle holes  can give the same soldering point at the rear.   There are some guys on Home Racing World that do a much better job of doing this type of a big car/midget chassis.

 

None of the open wheelers I build have scale tires and wheels.   It would be nice but they just won't grip or handle near as good with skinny, tall tires.

 

 

 

.

[Dave Crevie]

The chassis are my own design. The belly pan,main section is 1/32nd inch thick brass sheet, 1 1/2 inches wide. I made a die to

punch out the guide tongue area, and a second tool to form the sheet into the longitudinal U-shape. Initially I used the WRP brass

motor brackets, later using the Chicagoland Raceway narrow bracket. The front axle runs in a tube soldered to a 1/8th by 3/16ths

brass rectangle soldered as a cross brace at the front top of the U-shape. The chassis are the same for both the sprint car and

Indy car, with the Indy car pan being longer. On the sprint car the chassis is the belly pan, on the Indy car the chassis fits inside

the body. The motors are Falcon IIs or IIIs.

 

 

Since finding the Indy car bodies was tough, I made molds to cast them in a high impact resin.

 

[strummer]

Very nice Matt...very well done. How is the body attached to the chassis?

 

I know I'm not ready (if ever!) to attempt a complete scratch-build, so I'll be looking for a production chassis for the Monogram.

 

Speaking of which...

 

...in order to extend the wheels out to a 1/24 size, I needed to add a bunch of spacers: (remember this chassis is technically 1/32.) These spacers are all the "standard" 1/4", but the slots for the original model's axles were only 3/16", so I had to open those slots up to allow the body to fit over those axle/spacers. Here is an "in progress" shot:

 

 

After an hour or so of careful filing, here is the result:

 

 

A quick test on the track shows this might actually work!    

 

I can now see that the single biggest hurdle will be this: The design of this model was kind of a "clamshell" in that the body more or less fits around the chassis. As it is now, I can easily spread the two sides to get them to drop over and onto the chassis, but of course the sides haven't been glued together yet. Once that's done, I doubt there will be enough "flex" to allow this...

 

...help! 

 

Mark in Oregon

[strummer]

Dave

 

 I guess I missed your post earlier; those look terrific.

 

Finally got enough of the nose piece cut away to not only fit around the guide, but allow plenty of rotation:

 

 

Still LOTS of tweaking to do...

 

 

Will be taking a break now (bet you're glad to hear that!   ) as I wait for some additional needed parts...

 

Mark in Oregon

[slotbaker]

In the 5th post on this thread, Alan states that the Monogram Kurtis is "larger and much longer than this car." If that is indeed the case, I won't be able to use this chassis with that body since this is already as extended as far as it'll go: 3 11/16": axle to axle centers. It just barely fits this Aurora body, so I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for something that will fit the Monogram...

You might like to look out for some Dynamic cast chassis bits.

They are reasonably plentiful and not too expensive.

They are modular in design and can be built up using many different motors with the respective rear motor mount.

Just a sample of their stuff.

 

There is plenty of info on the blog and internet about Dynamic parts.

 

Motors...

For a quick ID for obvious differences between these 3 similar looking Atlas, Strombecker and Pittman motors;

 

Atlas AT208/208/406 etc - Magnet pole pieces run full length to include rear axle mounting, motor brushes are on the sides with spring pressure behind screws.  The rear motor bearing plate is staked between the pole pieces.

 

Strombecker Scuttler - Magnet pole pieces stop at the rear bearing, with formed axle carrier/bearing mount staked to the pole pieces, motor brushes are top and bottom and are the early carbon block on levers with 1x external compression spring.

 

Pittman DC196A/B - Magnet pole pieces stop at the end of the comutator. A cast/machined aluminium piece screws to the sides of the pole pieces, that incorporates the motor end bearing, and the axle carrier/bearing mount, as well as an insulated motor brush plate screwed to the top.  Similar brushes to Strombecker operate in the sides, and spring pressure is by special shaped tension spring under the insulated plate.

[strummer]

Thank you Steve; that's a lot of good information, and I appreciate your taking the time to post all of it. 

 

Mark in Oregon

[Alan Dodson]

Mark, The wheelbase on the Monogram Kurtis Kraft Indy car kit is 4", so you will indeed need a different chassis. The Dynamic line that Steve shows above are very versatile and adjustable.As far as getting the Aurora body on the chassis, you may be able to take the axles out, leave the nose off, and slide the body on from the rear.

[strummer]

Mark,

 

1. The wheelbase on the Monogram Kurtis Kraft Indy car kit is 4", so you will indeed need a different chassis. The Dynamic line that Steve shows above are very versatile and adjustable.

 

2. As far as getting the Aurora body on the chassis, you may be able to take the axles out, leave the nose off, and slide the body on from the rear.

 

1. Thanks Alan, for the additional info; very helpful. Question: didn't Cox make an F1 BRM? Seems something along those lines might yield a useable chassis...(?)

 

2. Although I get what you're saying, eventually I'll have to glue the nose section onto the body halves, for final finishing, etc. I think I may have to remove some of the lower sections of those halves so that the entire body can simply drop down over the chassis from above. Easier to do that removal while the body halves are in two pieces, I suppose.

 

Tons of fun. 

 

Mark in Oregon

[slotbaker]

The Cox open wheelers have a 2 piece chassis, and use the body to hold it together.

Not really suitable to use as a generic chassis.

 

This is the BRM, and there was a Ferrari as well with similar setup.

[MattD]

Don't waste time with a Cox F1 chassis, go to Ebay and look for a cheap Dynamic inline, be sure the tongue isn't cut too short.    You can run a 16D, but I've found with hot glue, you can run a Chinese motor in any of the inline frames and fit them under most any body.

 

 

 

 

[strummer]

Thanks guys...

...sounds like "Dynamic" it will be.

As an aside, I'm getting one of those Cox BRMs as a future project...you have been warned!   

Mark in Oregon

[Pablo]

The "pins through holes in the body" method worked great on my Lola hardbody race car

 

 

 

 

 

[strummer]

Great idea Paul. Thanks!

 

So I needed to remove approx. 1/8" along the bottom edges of the sides:

 

 

A couple hours later:

 

 

The chassis now pretty much drops right in, with a minimum of tweaking, and rides just fine on the test track. 

 

This is actually coming together much better (and easier) than I'd originally imagined. 

 

Should be able to start working on the actual body assembly soon.

 

Here's the car:

 

 

(a lousy phone picture from a terrific book)

 

Mark in Oregon

 

 

[MattD]

Mark, there are screws thru the ends of the front radius rods that go thru the body into the side rails of the frame to hold the body on.