59 replies to this topic

[Ramcatlarry]

Take any 3" WB womp-like frame, add the extenders to make it 3 1/4" wide, mount a wedgy wing body on it with normal front covering the guide, trim off the excess inch off of the tail behind the rear wheels and mount wings to look like a wing car an put more horsepower in the frame than is sane and HAVE FUN>>>>>

 

I do not recall seeing much 'paper' with new Parma cars in the 1990+....most was a list of extras to buy to hop them up.  As a craft hobby, ingenuity and experimentation is encouraged.

 

FYI:  The Flexi womp is an excellent replacement for the Super Womp/wiggle womp. Both seemed to be designed for only 1/8" axles and 48 pitch gears with larger tires like the regular inline womps.   The I-32, Demon,  Italian, Eurotoy were all developed around 3/32" axles and 64p gears with smaller (.760") tires.

[rmjlmartin]

Take any 3" WB womp-like frame, add the extenders to make it 3 1/4" wide, mount a wedgy wing body on it with normal front covering the guide, trim off the excess inch off of the tail behind the rear wheels and mount wings to look like a wing car an put more horsepower in the frame than is sane and HAVE FUN>>>>>

That does sound like fun. Are the extenders available anywhere anymore? I have a couple of old Parma Womp chassis from my teenage years. I've pretty much decided that I don't want to bother with regular Womp racing until I can build one out of the Mid America chassis that doesn't bend. I actually have several 1/32 premount wing car bodies that I picked up on Ebay recently, along with several more similar style bodies without wings. I also have an International 32 chassis with an X-12 motor in it. That would probably work out to something similar.

 

I haven't really done much with anything but the cars that we're racing weekly, which are JK Indy cars and 4" Flexis. The track I go to is far enough away that I don't have time to go more than once a week, and we normally only go on race night, so I haven't had much chance to play around with the slightly oddball things that intrigue me.

 

I'm on the hunt for a Flexi Womp chassis, too, if anyone knows where I can find one. I've only seen one for sale, on Ebay not too long ago, and I was too slow to pull the trigger.

[Ramcatlarry]

"I actually have several 1/32 premount wing car bodies that I picked up on Ebay recently, along with several more similar style bodies without wings."

 

THESE were part of a short FAD for this idea ((late 1980s?) and the BEST frame was the shortened 'brasscar/Magnum' made by either Parma or Champion.  These were great cars in their 4" form and quite fun in the short form with Grp 12 motors.

[rmjlmartin]

Thanks Larry, I think I've seen a few of those on Ebay. I didn't know what they were, though. I'll have to keep an eye open and grab one if I see it cheap.

[Paul Menkens]

"I actually have several 1/32 premount wing car bodies that I picked up on Ebay recently, along with several more similar style bodies without wings."

 

THESE were part of a short FAD for this idea ((late 1980s?) and the BEST frame was the shortened 'brasscar/Magnum' made by either Parma or Champion.  These were great cars in their 4" form and quite fun in the short form with Grp 12 motors.

Were those called "Baby Brass Kars"?

[Paul Menkens]

I agree with Bill. I dont recall either of these chassis coming with any kind of setup information in the packaging when new.

I don't remember them either, but here's proof that they did have them

https://www.ebay.com...ox/144010360550

[rmjlmartin]

I just ran across this last night. Is it an example of the shortened Parma Brass Kar?

 

https://www.ebay.com...353.m1438.l2649

[Paul Menkens]

I just ran across this last night. Is it an example of the shortened Parma Brass Kar?

 

https://www.ebay.com...353.m1438.l2649

I don't think so, you can see where the pieces have been cut and spliced together, looks like it started life as a regular Brass Kar

[Paul Menkens]

I just ran across this last night. Is it an example of the shortened Parma Brass Kar?

 

https://www.ebay.com...353.m1438.l2649

well, it IS a shortened BrassKar frame, but I faintly remember  (or I think I do) Parma selling a short version called a Baby Brass Kar, never saw one though

[rmjlmartin]

You might be right, I seem to remember reading something about a Baby Brass Kar, but I didn't know what it was at the time.

I know we're getting way off the original topic, but would a Ferret Hum-Dinger be similar? I just bought one on Ebay the other night, and it looks like kinda the same sort of thing, to my eye, anyway. It hasn't arrived yet, but I can post a screen shot from the Ebay listing, if need be.

[Paul Menkens]

Off the orig topic or not, this is one of the most interesting streams of posts that I've read here.

[Bill from NH]

You might be right, I seem to remember reading something about a Baby Brass Kar, but I didn't know what it was at the time.

I know we're getting way off the original topic, but would a Ferret Hum-Dinger be similar? I just bought one on Ebay the other night, and it looks like kinda the same sort of thing, to my eye, anyway. It hasn't arrived yet, but I can post a screen shot from the Ebay listing, if need be.

 

It's Ferret's 1/32 wing chassis. I've never had one so I don't know it's width. From pictures, I don't think it's 3" or any wider, guessing, I'd say about 2 1/2". Sargent was selling Humdinger chassis parts & other Ferret brass parts, but it was short-lived. After  the Ferret owner passed away, Sargent became the boy friend of the owner's wife. If you want to see a 1999 Ferret parts catalog, Google Speed Star Distributing.

[rmjlmartin]

Well, if the rest of you don't mind going off topic, I'm finding this pretty interesting myself.

I attached a picture of the Hum-Dinger chassis. I would say that you're probably right that it's probably 2 1/2" wide. And it looks to me like a shuttle style chassis. Would that be correct? The other thing that attracts me is that it appears to be a screw-in motor, which is a plus for me, since I'm not sure I'm comfortable yet soldering a motor in.

But the Womp/Brass Kar/Baby Brass Kar idea is very interesting, too. I have a cousin who dose machine work as a hobby, and I bet he could make me some Womp extenders fairly easily, if they're not readily available any more. With a shortened high-downforce body, and an Eagle or faster motor...

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[rmjlmartin]

For those of you that have run them, how do the Brass Kars compare to the original Flexi? The shorter version obviously has a shorter wheelbase. Does the chassis "flex", or is it fixed?

 

Would it be more similar to the retro can-am chassis than a Flexi-Kar?

[John Luongo]

For those of you that have run them, how do the Brass Kars compare to the original Flexi? The shorter version obviously has a shorter wheelbase. Does the chassis "flex", or is it fixed?

 

Would it be more similar to the retro can-am chassis than a Flexi-Kar?

in my experience, at outlaw 12 and above, the brass car chassis seemed to handle the power much better than a stock flexi car chassis, regardless of the body style. stock flexi chassis generally did very well with 16d up to s16d. iirc, racers ran brass car chassis in the original charlie harris new england outlaw 12 series run at 4 race ways with ray lee and modelville hobby as the victor. each race way provided 4 drivers to race twice on each track using both winged and sportscar bodies. others with better memories than mine will have more detailed/accurate info. fun series with great driving and well prepared cars.

[Paul Menkens]

For those of you that have run them, how do the Brass Kars compare to the original Flexi? The shorter version obviously has a shorter wheelbase. Does the chassis "flex", or is it fixed?

 

Would it be more similar to the retro can-am chassis than a Flexi-Kar?

Good question, I have 3 Brass Kar Chassis, one in use and 2 that I've adapted to take 3/32' axles which I will be setting back up at some point, and 2 original Flexis plus quite a few other variations of the flexi design.

The Brass Kars did flex, different design then the Flexis but accomplished the same in the end.

The biggest advantages that the Flexi had over the Brass Kar was that it was much simpler to manufacture and the motor did not have to be soldered in (although, if the screw holes get stripped, it is an easy job to solder them in if need be).

I've had good luck running Gp20 and X12 motors in both, at the raceway I used to race at we had a class of NASCARs that allowed either chassis and Gp12 or 20 motors and the flexis were very compeditive with the Brass Kars. 

I recently bought 2 cars from E-bay with Champion flexi type chassis, one of which is a wing car with a Mura Gp 20 body and it goes pretty well, the other has a Mura Gp12 and both should go pretty well when I get them dialed in.

I've seen several Parma Flexis as both wing cars and not with Gp 20 motors that handled the power great.

[Bill from NH]

I've never owned a brass-kar. My kids were young & I didn't have a commercial raceway in the area until 1996. I had odds-n-ends of flexi's to play around with, my kids both raced Parma Flexi 2s & I used a Champion Turboflex.  Both models were fairly durable & easily tunable, but once the Flexi 2's bent on the right side of the motor box, they rebent there frequently. In the right hands, the Flex-Kar (aka Flexi 1) was probably the best race chassis, but not is my hands. That chassis doesn't have any front wings, I think you need the front wheels to always remain in contact with the track surface.  I don't have any of the modern JK or Mosetti flexis, but there is still a lot of fun to be run out of the older flexi chassis.

[rmjlmartin]

"in my experience, at outlaw 12 and above, the brass car chassis seemed to handle the power much better than a stock flexi car chassis, regardless of the body style. stock flexi chassis generally did very well with 16d up to s16d."

 

That's interesting. Any thoughts as to why that might be? Is the Brass Kar heavier? Or more rigid, maybe? I guess I probably just need to get one and tinker with it. I can definitely see that the Flexi would be easier to manufacture. There's a good reason why new flexi-style chassis can be had for $25, while the brass and wire chassis like Tony P makes are well over $100...

 

"I recently bought 2 cars from E-bay with Champion flexi type chassis, one of which is a wing car with a Mura Gp 20 body"

 

Paul, is that the Champion that's kinds similar to the Brass Kar, or a Turbo Flex or similar?

 

"In the right hands, the Flex-Kar (aka Flexi 1) was probably the best race chassis"

 

I've heard different people say that, and I'm kinda hoping I can capitalize on it. I played with slot cars as a teenager in the early-mid '90s, mostly just ran them, not raced, but the track closed down in the mid '90s, and there hasn't been another one close until the last couple of years. I dug out my old stuff, a couple each of Flexi 1 and Womps, and took my boys, who are 9 and 13, and they were hooked. And I have to admit that I'm enjoying it a lot myself.

 

We've been racing Flexis and JK Indy cars. One of my boys and I are running JK Cheetah 21s, and my other son is using a Champion Astro and Turbo Flex. I've also picked up a few classic flexi-style chassis, and I've been tinkering with them and my old Flexi 1 as time permits, which isn't a lot. I have this fantasy of blowing everyone away with some old car that nobody else has, but so far, that hasn't happened. lol But, if nothing else, it's been helpful in learning how to set up and tune cars.

 

The older stuff interests me from the history standpoint, too. And you're right, Bill, there's still a lot of fun to be had with the older stuff. The Flexi class here allows older chassis, too, with the required gears and motors, so I could race any of the older chassis, if I can get them running and handling well enough, which I'm hoping to do. I raced one of my original Flexis once, but I think the motor is about to go, and the JK is fairly consistent, so I've just been running it by default unless I have something else to the point that I'm ready to race it, and I haven't taken the time to work on the Flexi again.

 

But I love to tinker and try "new" (or old, in this case) things, and perusing the topics on here has given all kinds of ideas to try!

[mark1]

I have a suggestion. Buy a good soldering iron. Hakko, 80 watt weller, even some chinese knockoffs (if they are hot enough) will work. Get some 60/40 solder. Acid flux, rosin flux. Get some brass strips. Practice soldering. All this will cost around a hundred dollars. It will be well worth it! Safety first. Soldering skills will put your hobby to the next level! Have a good one!

[rmjlmartin]

Here's a picture of Paul's Parma Italian chassis. It's interesting for sure.

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[Bill from NH]

I hadn't seen that particular chassis before. I wonder if it's an early version of the Demon, another Italian 1/32 brass anglewinder sold in the US by Proslot. It was also sole in Europe & England, but I do not know by whom.  When I find a photo of the Demon, I'll post it here,

[rmjlmartin]

I have a suggestion. Buy a good soldering iron. Hakko, 80 watt weller, even some chinese knockoffs (if they are hot enough) will work. Get some 60/40 solder. Acid flux, rosin flux. Get some brass strips. Practice soldering. All this will cost around a hundred dollars. It will be well worth it! Safety first. Soldering skills will put your hobby to the next level! Have a good one!

Thanks Mark, I appreciate the suggestions. I'm actually fine with soldering to brass, as long I'm not dealing with a brass and wire chassis, or something where there are pieces that are likely to start moving if I get them too hot. Steel is another story, though. At least on the JK flexi chassis that we're running, even with acid flux, I'm having a hard time getting solder to stick. If it's a spot that's already been soldered to, it's fine, but on a spot that's fresh... I guess I need more practice...

[Bill from NH]

Jason, grind the plating off those difficult to solder spots to expose fresh steel. Then apply solder & flux, it should stick fine. Some old chassis of JK's & the Parma Flexi Kar have a zinc, rather than nickel plating & you'll not get solder to stick to zinc. A Dremel or Dremel-type hand tool is good for chassis grinding.

 

Chassis building can come later, if you're interested. In Mark's post. he left out needing a chassis jig. Commercial ones can be expensive, but there are some alternatives.

[Bill from NH]

I have yet to find a photo of the Proslot Demon I mentioned in post #46. But I have found some information about Paul's chassis shown in post #45. It's a Parma Electricar. Introduced in the fall of 1987, it was available in 2 1/2" & 3 1/8" widths. This was done so it could fit most any 1/32 body available at that time.

[rmjlmartin]

Actually, I haven't had any real problem soldering to older stuff. I guess I should have clarified earlier. It's been mainly the current JK chassis, the Cheetah 21 and Indy. Maybe I just haven't tried anything else that's been problematic. I'm not sure if the JK stuff is plated or not. Maybe some kind of stainless? I've been meaning to ask the track owner here, but I haven't got around to it.

Here's a link to a thread that has some pictures of the Pro Slot Demon. It might have come up earlier in this thread, too. (I'm on my phone and it won't let me look from this page.) I'll look up the others, too. Do you by chance have any links, Bill?