385 replies to this topic

[DavidR]

Excellent set of Rules, but only if those in charge decide to use them. Most tracks run on rules they develop on their own. As far as I know none of the Retro Races in Georgia are actually sanctioned by the IRRA even if they say they race on IRRA rules. Truth is rarely does a RD or a corner marshal have a perfect race when someone doesnt get upset.

[Clyde Romero]

 

The IRRA rule on Turn Marshals and Track Calls from the 2021 rule set:

 

Marshaling

• All entrants are expected to marshal and/or to

assist the Race Director if unable to marshal due

to physical or medical reasons.

• Any driver failing or refusing to marshal as

directed in a class in which he is competing will

receive a five-lap penalty in that class.

 

Track Calls

• Track calls will permitted only under the

following conditions:

– an umarshalable car in the straight in front of

the drivers, or on an inaccessible part of the

racing surface.

– an umarshalable car under a bridge or on the

floor in an inaccessible location. A car on the

floor is NOT automatically a track call.

– a car landing in another racer’s lane, i.e. a

“rider.”

Note: The situation where a turn marshal

has more than one car to re-slot is NOT a

track call.

• When a track call is made, the Race Director

may, at his discretion, ask the driver calling

“track” his reason for doing so. If the Race

Director determines the track call to have been

unwarranted and/or in violation of the rules, the

driver’s car will be moved to a position

immediately past the lap counter’s dead strip

before racing is resumed.

 

Black Flag

• Any car suffering damage that makes it a hazard

to other drivers, due to constant de-slotting, or

that is damaged in a manner making it illegal

under IRRA® rules (such as a loss of part of the

body, interior, and wheels, or dragging on the

track surface) will be black-flagged.

• A car that is black-flagged must be immediately

removed from the track until proper repairs are

made. Failure to comply with a black flag will

result in the driver’s.

 

Conduct

• The Race Director, at his sole discretion, will

issue a warning to a driver exhibiting unsportsmanlike

conduct. A second offense will cause

the driver to suffer a ten-lap penalty. A third

offense will result in the driver’s disqualification

from the race.

 

Sounds OK to me.

 

Thanks Scott for providing a solution to this issue.

I will print this out and staple it to every SERRA race entry form where the driver has to sign it after reading it 

will also include it in the race announcements so it will not be a shock to the racer Attending the race.

[Racer36]

Excellent set of Rules, but only if those in charge decide to use them. Most tracks run on rules they develop on their own. As far as I know none of the Retro Races in Georgia are actually sanctioned by the IRRA even if they say they race on IRRA rules. Truth is rarely does a RD or a corner marshal have a perfect race when someone doesnt get upset.

The IRRA doesn’t “sanction” any races, ever. It is a rule set drafted by experienced racers with creating a fair and equal playing field as the only motive. If the above posted document is followed it should remove a lot of frustration on the part of racers .

[Eddie Fleming]

I have no problem with the IRRA rules Scott posted.

 

I do have concerns about the condition of some people marshaling. I would not want to see anyone hurt or worse trying to marshal like a 20 year old. In a big head count race this may not be a problem but with 10 or 12 racers it could be. In addition to concern for the people marshaling, the A and B mains in a one and done format can be drastically different races due to the limitations of the people working the race. 

 

Just food for thought.

[Clyde Romero]

The IRRA doesn’t “sanction” any races, ever. It is a rule set drafted by experienced racers with creating a fair and equal playing field as the only motive. If the above posted document is followed it should remove a lot of frustration on the part of racers .

A HUGE BIG THANK YOU RACER 36 for educating David R!!!!!!

[Racer36]

I have no problem with the IRRA rules Scott posted.

 

I do have concerns about the condition of some people marshaling. I would not want to see anyone hurt or worse trying to marshal like a 20 year old. In a big head count race this may not be a problem but with 10 or 12 racers it could be. In addition to concern for the people marshaling, the A and B mains in a one and done format can be drastically different races due to the limitations of the people working the race. 

 

Just food for thought.

I hear you Eddie. We have plenty of guys up here that are not as nimble as they once were. With a bit of thought the slower marshalls can be put in low traffic areas and it will still remain fair for everyone.

I can’t think of an instance at my last race where a marshal had an effect on the finish of the race.

[Dan Ebert]

IRRA is a sanctioning body for Premier Races.   Just like USRA they provide a rule set for one time Events.   USRA  the yearly Nats, IRRA the Sano, Fall Brawl, R4, Retro Palooza.  Regional Series that follow IRRA guidelines may not use those, IRRA provides for Race Directing and Marshaling.   The series I am involved in, Penn Ohio has a set of printed guidelines for Race Directing.  While not all Marshals or Race Directors are created equal.   We would never attempt to compensate or adjust for that.   Human error or just not being equal is part of the game just like driving skills.  When you go to a regional race.  That is something you should expect a higher level of racing.     House races can be ran different.  But when someone steps up to regional type racing.  They should expect the terms and competition to step up also.  To many tracks and Race Directors want to run Regional races like their house race programs.  That shouldn't happen at regional racing levels.    

 

Just my opinion,

Dan Ebert   Penn Ohio Series BOD. 

[Clyde Romero]

IRRA is a sanctioning body for Premier Races.   Just like USRA they provide a rule set for one time Events.   USRA  the yearly Nats, IRRA the Sano, Fall Brawl, R4, Retro Palooza.  Regional Series that follow IRRA guidelines may not use those, IRRA provides for Race Directing and Marshaling.   The series I am involved in, Penn Ohio has a set of printed guidelines for Race Directing.  While not all Marshals or Race Directors are created equal.   We would never attempt to compensate or adjust for that.   Human error or just not being equal is part of the game just like driving skills.  When you go to a regional race.  That is something you should expect a higher level of racing.     House races can be ran different.  But when someone steps up to regional type racing.  They should expect the terms and competition to step up also.  To many tracks and Race Directors want to run Regional races like their house race programs.  That shouldn't happen at regional racing levels.    

 

Just my opinion,

Dan Ebert   Penn Ohio Series BOD.

Dan thanks for your input on this important subject

 

Clyde 

SERRA Director  

[Dan Ebert]

To negate any confusion from my post above.   Penn Ohio closely follows the Track Call directives listed by IRRA.  

[Danny Zona]

Another thing not mentioned.

A key to having a good outcome in a race is identifying a turn marshal that isn't so good.

It could be various things. Health problems, a race watcher or just plain don't give a damn.

No one's perfect.

It is a factor though as a racer.

[DavidR]

A HUGE BIG THANK YOU RACER 36 for educating David R!!!!!!

So the IRRA according to the above post is a sanctioning body, but according to Clydes education remarks they do not sanction any races? Then why is it called a sanctioning body? Are the big events like the Fall Brawl,R4 and other major Retro race events not sanctioned events? I think its more than just me who need educating on this,

[Racer36]

And I repeat, the IRRA does not sanction events, ever. This is an excerpt from the mission statement available on the website. Doing a bit of homework before blowing your horn can go a long way.

• IRRA^® is a rules-making body only and does not sanction, approve, sponsor, or hold slot racing events. For this reason, the trademark IRRA^® may not be used in the names of races, i.e. the Mid-Alaska IRRA^® Moose Maul or the Golden Grain IRRA^® Nats.

[DavidR]

Ok thanks for the clarification, seems others were not clear on this too. Another observation, why do some try and treat others like fools for simply trying to find out information which I believe is the reason forums exist. Guess you and Clyde didnt read the name its Slot Blog not Snob Blog 😂

[Dan Ebert]

Sorry I guess the verb sanctioning shouldn't have been used in my above statement.   But IRRA does set the criteria for Premier Races and what can be called an IRRA Premier Event.   

[Clyde Romero]

Sorry I guess the verb sanctioning shouldn't have been used in my above statement.   But IRRA does set the criteria for Premier Races and what can be called an IRRA Premier Event.   

Thanks Dan you being a former track owner and still racing a series know what I am experiencing with SERRA, your insights are always appreciated.  

[Clyde Romero]

 

And I repeat, the IRRA does not sanction events, ever. This is an excerpt from the mission statement available on the website. Doing a bit of homework before blowing your horn can go a long way.

• IRRA^® is a rules-making body only and does not sanction, approve, sponsor, or hold slot racing events. For this reason, the trademark IRRA^® may not be used in the names of races, i.e. the Mid-Alaska IRRA^® Moose Maul or the Golden Grain IRRA^® Nats.

 

Thanks Dennis your comments drove the point home hopefully to those who did understand what we were trying to accomplish.

[Clyde Romero]

Well, it appears we have covered this subject pretty well, don't you think?

Those of us who understand what the meaning of sanction is and what it entails with regards to IRRA rules. (We all know who that is!) 

 

So on to another subject that remains a difficult one.

Cheating

Yes, I said it.

I have personally witnessed it and it's difficult subject to breach.

So, what do you do with racers who are caught?

Open the flood gates 

I am ready to hear about it.

[Eddie Fleming]

Cheating

 Say it ain't so!

 

Cheating or just not knowing and being outside the rules?

[DavidR]

Ive witnessed cars many times coming through tech that were not legal as to rules of the class. Is this like Eddie said cheating or just not being aware of rules? This is fixable by the tech person having full knowledge of the rules and taking the time to throughly inspect the car, body off will reveal more than body on . As for actual cheating Ive only seen someone called out on it one time.

[Charley]

I guess I'll stir the pot on another issue. Race times being posted, then all of a sudden "Cars up to tech" an hour before the time posted. What are you thoughts on this?

[Clyde Romero]

I guess I'll stir the pot on another issue. Race times being posted, then all of a sudden "Cars up to tech" an hour before the time posted. What are you thoughts on this?

Interesting, never have seen this at a major race, not saying it hasn't happened but I myself have never experienced it.

[Clyde Romero]

Ok so we have covered the Track call issue pretty much and there doesn't seem much traffic on the subject of cheating, so let's move on to a subject that has always had me scratching my head.

 

treated tires vs untreated tires.

what are they treated with? 

what's the difference?

 

why do they call it wonder rubber?

[Eddie Fleming]

On the cheating question.

 

 The tech people say this is the rule set, but if they don't enforce the rules then the truth of the matter is the rules are whatever you can get by tech. It is that way in all racing as far as I can tell.

 

Bottom line, it is your call as race director/tech inspector. If I am smart and want to race I will figure out what the enforced rules are and run that. Or if I am honest and want to race I will run by the stated rules and take my chances.

 

On the other hand you the track owner are trying to keep a business going and can't afford to run off customers. Then again letting someone cheat may run off customers too. A mell of a hess.

[gc4895]

Wonder Rubber: the wonder is "how am I going to keep the doors open if everyone uses these tires that last 3x over natural or treated tires!?!" This is in the vein of tires are a slot car consumable item. It's time consuming to buy donuts, glue and prepare them for sizing. It's time consuming and expensive to have the proper equipment to trim tires to size. Racers are rewarded with good performance when tires are sized to offer chassis clearance minimum. Track Owners are rewarded with sales when those tires only last a single race.

Now, of course, not all track surfaces interact in the same way with wonder, in all it's delicious hardnesses. Some reward other materials or treatment. But in terms of durability, wonder - in my experience- delivers. Yes, sometimes at the cost of on track performance. But not always.

Thinking about all the chemicals involved, specialized equipment needed and time allocated to the process, suddenly that $12 bottle of correctly sized, wonderfully clean tires well fixed to a new hub look to be excellent value. The alternative is overly demanding to some, a joy of correct preparation to others.

Treated tires? Did someone say MEK? Or other exotic formulas and treatment temperatures. Tires can be the single most important tool to prepare a car for proper performance...how hard/soft the "rubber" or synthetic material; treated with???; hub size; correct cut to embrace chassis performance; gosh, the variables are one of the true joys in car prep. Getting tires "right" can be the difference between podium and "also participating in the race today was...".

Generally speaking, the casual participant, or those recognizing the value of that ready to race tube of tires, helps keep the doors open with regular purchase of this consumable item. And for this we all might be encouraged to offer our thanks. As always, YMMV.

[Clyde Romero]

So with all that’s going on in the world right now, who would have thought that Ukrainian war would impact our hobby.

But sadly this war has, there are several manufacturers of slot car parts etc that we all use based in Ukraine.

Controllers for one.

The global economy reaches far and wide.

I don’t know what more to say on this, having been to war several times in my life I hope that the people of Ukraine survive this invasion as best they can.

We are all seeing the devastation of this country by the Soviets.

Keep them in your thoughts and prayers.

 

Clyde