71 replies to this topic

[Phil Smith]

New post today by Richard Mack. He has a new 1/32 loner car that he'll be sending out soon.

 

https://www.facebook...308254371195488

 

 

 

[Bill from NH]

What is the Brushless Slot Car Racing Assoc.? This is the first time I've heard that name.  I see they have a FB page. Is this a British group?

[Phil Smith]

Bill, yes it's mostly British guys. I believe Richard Mack (of Mack Eurosport chassis' fame) and Bob Budge are the founders of the group. Bob has designed an ESC from scratch that is purpose built for slot cars (one is in the car pictured above). He can't get components to build them because of the world shortage, so who knows when his ESC will be available for sale.

 

These guys are very experienced and really know what they're doing. Brushless motors seem well suited for Eurosport, so maybe it will actually take off across the pond.

 

 

[Bags]

Phil

Bob contacted a Canadian to build their “esc” and it’s still under development, not close to market from what they are saying on that Facebook page….all the plans for that switch are posted here on the slot blog months ago. 
 

[Bags]

Getting 2 ready to test soon….Retro Can-am on the right.

Attached Images

• 

[bbr]

Wow, just posted are the very easy tutorial on conversion of talon esc!

Ez pee z.

Lets play,,, I've been playing for months, lets go racing soon.

If anything, brushless is very suitable for high down force slot cars.

[Zippity]

Deleted and posted elsewhere  

[Half Fast]

If anything, brushless is very suitable for high down force slot cars.

Mike  is brushless suitable for lower down force cars, if not why not?

 

Cheers

[bbr]

Depends on what rpm u r turning thru the turns.
If it is within the operating range of the brushless setup.
High speed, high downforce running - u r almost running at the upper rpm range.
You can play with the gear ratio to get it right for slower turn speed type tracks, but then it might compromise ur top end.
I always consider turn speed n turn exit speed/acceleration more important n let top end fall where it may on flat track running.
But the stopwatch is ur actual guide.

[Phil Smith]

Mike  is brushless suitable for lower down force cars, if not why not?

 

Cheers

 

Bill, the Brits are mostly running them on flat tracks, so I would think they will run well on pretty much any track.

 

[Phil Smith]

Depends on what rpm u r turning thru the turns.
If it is within the operating range of the brushless setup.
High speed, high downforce running - u r almost running at the upper rpm range.
You can play with the gear ratio to get it right for slower turn speed type tracks, but then it might compromise ur top end.
I always consider turn speed n turn exit speed/acceleration more important n let top end fall where it may on flat track running.
But the stopwatch is ur actual guide.

 

Mike that's true no matter what kind of motor you're running.

[bbr]

I will elaborate - there's a starting rpm that is rather high compared to brushed motors, depending on what ur brushless setup is.
Ur slowest turn will determine how you set things up. The esc will cut out if the rpm for that turn falls below the minimum rpm of the brushless setup. It becomes abrupt n jerky, not good for lap times.
The esc is key, how it ramps up n all that stuff.
And getting everything to run smoothly to max turn speed, yes it is nothing new to slot racing.
Getting it right is the trick

[Bags]

I will elaborate - there's a starting rpm that is rather high compared to brushed motors, depending on what ur brushless setup is.
Ur slowest turn will determine how you set things up. The esc will cut out if the rpm for that turn falls below the minimum rpm of the brushless setup. It becomes abrupt n jerky, not good for lap times

Mike are you using a wide open full on motor controller (like a drag setup)  or one the has been turned down in the settings?

 

It can be adjusted now with a Castle link to preform to your liking.

[Phil Smith]

I think I read on the Brushless Slot Car Racing Association Facebook page that the ESC quits working below 3 volts. Maybe the cause of the slow speed jerkiness?

 

 

 

[bbr]

Yes, need to play with the ramp up.
Learning as we play, I rarely get it right the first time, lol

[Jay Guard]

I'm totally out of my element here since I'm not an "electronics guy" but what if you set up your controller to have a (variable?) lower end stop at the 2.99 volt level, wouldn't it act like a brake since the motor would turn off?  Then the next band would energize the motor at 3 volts and I assume go faster as you went up on the bands.  You would have to use either the proper motor and/or proper gearing to achieve the speeds you are looking for but that is what we do now.   If I understand how this works (which I probably don't) it seems this way you might not have to modify the ESC at all and just have a "Brushless" type controller that would have smooth control from 3 volts up to the track max voltage.

[Bags]

I'm totally out of my element here since I'm not an "electronics guy" but what if you set up your controller to have a (variable?) lower end stop at the 2.99 volt level, wouldn't it act like a brake since the motor would turn off?  Then the next band would energize the motor at 3 volts and I assume go faster as you went up on the bands.  You would have to use either the proper motor and/or proper gearing to achieve the speeds you are looking for but that is what we do now.   If I understand how this works (which I probably don't) it seems this way you might not have to modify the ESC at all and just have a "Brushless" type controller that would have smooth control from 3 volts up to the track max voltage.

 

 

 

 

 

Jay if you are trying to keep the controller in the car alive/powered up, all you need to do is wrap tape around the trigger or make some sort of stop. My friend in Florida put his finger in between the handle and trigger last night to keep it alive as a bs test if you will. It’s worked ok, the big thing is to learn how to drive them because they are different the way the power comes on. 

[bbr]

for wings, hi speed king running, and drag, it's a relative "no brainer"

 

road racing, and in particular flat tracks... more playing need 2b done.

it's doable.

 

making/finding brushless motors that have enough self braking, so u can run anti-brake

[Phil Smith]

for wings, hi speed king running, and drag, it's a relative "no brainer"

 

road racing, and in particular flat tracks... more playing need 2b done.

it's doable.

 

making/finding brushless motors that have enough self braking, so u can run anti-brake

 

I think Richard Mack has much/all of the road course problems sorted out. When/if they ever get their ESC built it should be a done deal.

[bbr]

sourcing the low v operating ic chips has been an issue for Mack esc

 

so for now tweaking the talon esc to find ways to make it work is the play 

I'm sure guys have ideas n try things,,, innovation,,,

[Bags]

 

I think Richard Mack has much/all of the road course problems sorted out. When/if they ever get their ESC built it should be a done deal.

Phil the UK tracks run 12v. Here in the States the voltage is higher on most tracks. We have done the majority of the testing on 13.6v.

The brushless controller that is being developed in the UK has reverse polarity protection on it provided by a mosfet. The mosfet draws .7v to power it.

That leaves 11.3v to power the controller from the track. So less power to the brushless motor, remember kv x vdc= rpm.

Last month the brushless cars went to a track that had 12.3v for power. Martin told me how much easier the cars handled on less power! 
 

Let’s do some math ( cuz we can ) 11.3x6000=67,800 rpm.  The cars have .670ish tires geared 10x40 64 pitch. That high ratio with less track power helps smooth out the “power band” that they are running in. The flat tracks don’t have the trigger to the wood banks like we have here. The driving style is kinda like reverse from here, they only hit the top for a blip. We blip to slow down. So math again…13.6x5200=70,720rpm .760 tires 13x33-35 + too the wood banks, they ain’t using it all and neither are we….still a lot to learn from here.

 

There are a few things to consider when trying to setup a brushless ride that can run 1000’s of laps.
 

[Phil Smith]

Lots of stuff going on in the UK. Still no ESCs though. Can't get some of the parts to build them.

 

https://www.facebook...308254371195488

[Zippity]

The Talon 25 ESC seems like a great choice  

[Phil Smith]

Zip, Bill Budge designed one from scratch specifically for slot cars. I think I'm going to wait until they're available.

[Phil Smith]

I thought about Stu Koford building brushless motors, but he could build ESCs as well. He might want to get into the game. That is if brussless ever takes off here, which at this point doesn't seem likely.