81 replies to this topic

[NJ Racer]

Hi, Ray,

 

That's probably a good motor and body combination, but unfortunately won't work with 1-1/16" rear tires.  I have one of those K&B Maserati bodies too, and tried it out.  It's a 1/25 (not 1/24) scale body and simply too small.

 

BTW, are you the same Ray Carlisi I remember (vaguely) from Gran Prix Raceway in the Bronx (1967-69)?  You may also vaguely remember me, I used to hang out with David Liebenthal and Jim Damerell.

 

Hey Steve...Yes those exciting early days as a kid at Grand Prix Raceway. I remember your full suspension F1 that you built back then. I thought we ran into each other years later at the retro race  in Gaithersburg, MD at Mimi's "The Track"? 

[Steve Okeefe]

Ray,

 

PM sent.

[dc-65x]

Great that you and Ray reconnected Steve.   

 

Speaking of connecting, it's time to get the Russkit 16D bracket, called for in the proposal drawing, connected to a big 36D motor.

 

First thing was to open up the bearing bracket's hole with a taper pin reamer:

 

 

In the past I've use the reamer by hand or with a hand drill. It was hard to keep the hole from drifting off center. This time I used the tapping fixture shown below and it worked perfectly:

 

 

The 36D screw hole spacing is so much bigger than the Russkit bracket I needed to add part of a 36D bracket to it:

 

 

 

A couple of slots were filed in the Russkit bracket that just barely allowed it to be bolted to the 36D plate for soldering:

 

 

 

It looks better spiffed up a bit:

 

 

This worked but as shown by the red arrow only half of the screw head is solidly connecting the bracket to endbell:

 

 

Ah, the wonderment of prototyping.   

 

A better solution, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, might be to solder the 36D plate to opposite side. The Russkit bracket would need clearance cuts for the motor mounting screw heads. 

 

Rather than start over I made a simple fix by soldering on some modified brass washers, then filing and lapping everything nice and flat:

 

 

Then end result is what the proposal drawing called for. I like the way mighty 36D motor looks even bigger with the little 16D bracket attached:   

 

[Pablo]

Ultra SANO           

[don.siegel]

Seeing Rick's struggles with the Russkit bracket (and his usual elegant solution), I have to wonder: why didn't they just use 36D brackets in the first place? There was no lack of them, although maybe harder to find in the 1970s... The K&B Bobcat itself came with its own bracket for instance. 

 

Don 

[dc-65x]

Thanks Pablo.  

 

I'm just speculating here Don and I hope Rodney will chime in with any clarification.

 

MESAC had piles of Russkit parts but, as I remember, a 36D U-bracket style for 36D's was never made. Perhaps the designer of the Veteran class proposal drawing thought a simple modification to the 16D bracket would suffice. I confess that I did too until I started working on it.

 

As the Veteran class cars progressed from their inception in 1971 to 1976 a different U-bracket is seen in Rodney's car shown below. Perhaps this was MESAC specific or a production piece I don't recognize:

 

 

I confess that I have not been especially interested in 36D's and have collected few chassis parts for it. The few 36D U-brackets I have seen have the problem of being very wide. The Veteran class cars have a narrow rear track width and fairly wide rear wheels. This would leave less room for attaching rails to the rear axle tube as I'm finding out even with the narrow 16D bracket.

 

There are other "challenges" with the original proposal design that are showing up too. That's why I'm approaching this project as if I was handed the proposal drawing and asked to build it as a prototype or feasibility study for a new MESAC racing class. 

 

Fun stuff.  

[don.siegel]

Thanks for response Rick; in fact, I thought there were more 36D brackets than there actually where. Just took a quick look through my stocks and only found the K&B, plus another one that's even wider and much heavier gauge. No idea who made it... Just out of curiosity, will keep looking to see if I find anything else. 

 

There are a few for the can-drive 36Ds, but not for EBD. 

 

 

Don 

 

PS: found a bag full of brackets, with two more candidates: a hypoid bracket for the SP600 from MDC, and the Dynamic bracket for the GE motor... oh well! 

[Steve Okeefe]

Prototyping has a purpose, and persistence pays.

 

Nice job on that motor bracket! 

 

Hoping to learn more about the motor bracket in the photo of Rodney's car. 

[dc-65x]

Hopefully more info on the MESAC Veteran class specific bracket is in the works.  

[dc-65x]

Here's an email from Rodney regarding Veteran class motor brackets:

 

"Got this picture from Victor.  He thought they were different and for 36D.  They are the same Russkit 16D ones we have."

 

 

The screw holes slotted and bearing hole opened up a bit to fit the 36D. I did the same thing followed by a brass strip reinforcement. 

 

That Russkit inline bracket is my personal favorite and was used for years in Pro car applications. I bet a book could be written on the zillion ways to brace the thing.    

 

Thanks Rodney and Victor!   

[dc-65x]

 

I just received more photos and info on Veteran class motor brackets.

 

I'll post it after lunch.  

[Bill from NH]

Steve's website, now a forum on Slotblog, has a timeline of different U-bracket bracing methods. Not a zillion, but about a page of sketches, as I recall.

[dc-65x]

Bill, I've got 3 more Veteran class motor bracket pictures from Rodney and Victor.
 

Hoping to learn more about the motor bracket in the photo of Rodney's car. 

Steve, Rodney sent this photo of his Ferrari Monza. To us it looks like a very nicely home made and scaled up version of the Russkit 16D bracket:

 

 

Victor sent two pictures. This one is of his Lister. This bracket could be hand made as well:

 

 

Victor's other picture. This one might be a modified Russkit 16D bracket with the slotted screw holes? Victor said they were a popular option being readily available:

 

 

Of course everything I said is just pure speculation on my part........slot car archology!

 

Thanks for the info and pics Rodney and Victor.  

 

Anywho, I have my modified Russkit bracket ready to start building the chassis.

[don.siegel]

Food for thought - thanks guys! 

 

It's funny how the first one really does look like a stretched Russkit 16D bracket; and the second a slightly elongated DuBro! I don't think DuBro ever made a 36D bracket, but... never say never. 

 

Don 

[Steve Okeefe]

Bingo!   

 

To paraphrase another famous car builder: If you think it's a Russkit 16D bracket, or if you think it's a home-made scratchbuilt bracket, you're right.

 

Thank you Rodney, Victor and especially Captain Rick.    

 

Time to get started on my own Veteran Class car.

[JimR]

Now if we can just get some wealthy benefactor to the vintage slot car fraternity to pop for some new brass 36D universal motor mounts (inline and sidewinder). Sure, he'd never make a profit, but if he truly loved the hobby ...

[dc-65x]

My Rick's Jig is my indispensable third hand for installing the 5/32" axle tube and piano wire U-brace:

 

 

All spiffed up:

 

 

 

Time to move on from motor brackets to main rails.......

[Flathead]

The Russkit bracket on the Ferarri Monza looks like it could be modified from the Russkit 26d bracket (possibly with different hole centers). Got to be easier to use than the 16d bracket as it has more meat to play with. As an added bonus Electric dreams has the 26d bracket at a reasonable price.

[dc-65x]

Hi Lee,

 

The Monza's bracket is missing the horizontally spaced hole in your picture.

[dc-65x]

Steve Okeefe PM'd me and asked about the Veteran class car from post #38 pictured below. A mid-engine  car in a class we were thinking was for front engine cars only:   

 

 

You are the winner Steve as you are the first to notice this and comment on it: 

 

 
         
 
Victor said that body is a version of the Cooper Monaco and was popular. The other information about bodies in the Veteran class are these MESAC molds that Victor just dug up:
 

 
There is the MESAC version of the Cooper Monaco, center in the bottom row. This race car was made in the 1950's and into the 1960's. There were a zillion versions.
 

 
Also notice the Lotus 19, top row on the left and the Penske Zerex special rear engine cars. I love the Zerex special, on the right in the bottom row:

 

 
As for me, in my personal reality, this class was a chance to run the great old cars that were narrow and fell out of competitiveness with later Can Am style monsters as slot cars.

 

IMHO, the chassis and track widths are the limiting performance factor with a stock 36D powered Veteran class car no matter what body is used. You could put a McLaren Mk8B on a Veteran chassis and it wouldn't make it any faster............and perhaps that was the point.  

[don.siegel]

Exactly! 

 

Good point Rick. 

 

I still have a little trouble imaging how a 36D will fit comfortably under a few of those bodies... 

 

Don 

[dc-65x]

I got curious about the Zerex special fitting and I put it over my veteran class setup:

 

 

The body fits over the motor OK but I'm not sure where a driver would go:

 

 

My body is a Lancer. Of course I don't know how a MESAC version of the body would fit.

 

The Lancer version fits a Bonner powered car just fine:   

 

 

[don.siegel]

I have a method for putting drivers in cars with big motors filling up cockpits... 

 

[dc-65x]

Right Don. A drivers head glued on the motor is about all there would be room for with that Zerex special body.

 

I enlarged this picture of Rodney's eBay  MESAC Veteran car find to try and show the treaded front tires. Sorry, it's a bit fuzzy but you can see the tread:

 

 

I wanted to come up with a way to neatly cut the treads in my front tires instead of eyeballing it freehand with a razor saw:  

 

 

I bought some of these small fine Excel saw blades:

 

 

I found I could mount it as shown in a large hobby knife handle:

 

 

Here it is mounted in my little hobby lathe's boring bar tool holder. I left the saw blade long so I could put a small square against it in the lathe to get it perpendicular:

 

 

Here I'm experimenting on a practice tire. With the lathe I can control the depth and spacing of the cut accurately:

 

 

I like the way they turned out:

 

 

Look how cleanly that little fine tooth saw blade cut the treads. No fuzzy wuzzies in the grooves:

 

 

I don't know if anybody else on the planet wants to cut tread in slot car front tires but here is a very neat and tidy way to do it.  

[Martin]

Nice results.

If you don't feel like moving from one groove to the next, I do wonder if my use of a tap to cut grooves would cut rubber as well as it cut aluminum?

 

 

My tap is also clamped into a lathe tool holder as you did.