23 replies to this topic

[OCJoeR]

I built my second track table out of 2x4s and 1/2" OSB. It's 16' x 7'. Because it's in my garage and I still have to get the cars and motorcycle in there I built it with folding legs and wheels so I can move it to the side and lift it up and out of the way. I'm not sure if it's me getting older or the table gaining weight but it's getting more and more difficult lifting this thing up. So I've come up with what I think might be a better idea. I was going to build a new table out of the metal drywall studs and glue/screw 1" Owens Corning XPS foam board to the top. I've located a supplier who has the metal studs that I can get in up to 16' lengths. My though was to use two 16 footers for the long sides and then cut 10 footers down to 7' lengths and space them every 2' for the frame. I would then use the left over 3' sections and run them diagonally between the 7' pieces for stability. I think I've attached a file with what the frame would look like. 

 

I'd put the same type of folding legs on the bottom with some cross braces make out of lengths of the studs for support. 

 

The track is currently held onto the OSB with those lex lock studs things. Oh, forgot to indicate this is Scalextric sport track.  I've tried using those EZ anchors on a piece of XPS and they seem to hold very well so I could use them to hold the lex loks. 

 

Anyone have any ideas on whether this would be stable enough of a table? 

 

Joe

 

 

Attached Files

•  Tilting Table.pdf   38.62KB   82 downloads

[Racer36]

Metal stud can be had in various thicknesses, as some of it is used in load bearing walls. I would lean towards using heavy gauge at least for the perimeter. It will still be vastly lighter than using lumber. There are also stiffeners available for the corners that make a huge difference.

[mreibman]

ok somewhere in my past I have a degree in architectural technlogy, and I have some knowledge of metal studs.

 

I looked at your diagram, and I would suggest that you're overbuilding the table. Further, I don't believe your insulation board will give you any kind of structural strength. The metal studs by themselves, although strong, have a tendency to twist. The strength when using them is to have them sandwiched between two rigid surfaces.

 

That all being said, if you're going to make this again 16'x7' with no overhang, then the small 1 5/8" metal studs should do. Skip all the diagonal pieces in your diagram.

I suggest using coroplast (corrugated plastic sheets) with the corrugation running across the joists, as it were, so they run perpendicular to the inner joists.

THEN put a second skin on the bottom side. If you can get all this together with screws, you should have a very rigid surface.

 

I would further suggest that you solid block wherever the legs are going with wood. So a corner block in each corner, and as needed anywhere else.

 

If you're going to attach to a wall somehow, use a cleat against the wall with a piano hinge, and hinge the legs so they fold down when it's up.

 

And if you really want to make this easier on you - use a pulley system to raise and lower it. Of course, if you do that you might not even have to build a whole new table.

[OCJoeR]

Metal stud can be had in various thicknesses, as some of it is used in load bearing walls. I would lean towards using heavy gauge at least for the perimeter. It will still be vastly lighter than using lumber. There are also stiffeners available for the corners that make a huge difference.

Hi Dennis,

 

The studs I've seen are 25 gauge. I'll have to look into those stiffeners, I hadn't thought about that. 

 

Joe

[OCJoeR]

ok somewhere in my past I have a degree in architectural technlogy, and I have some knowledge of metal studs.

 

I looked at your diagram, and I would suggest that you're overbuilding the table. Further, I don't believe your insulation board will give you any kind of structural strength. The metal studs by themselves, although strong, have a tendency to twist. The strength when using them is to have them sandwiched between two rigid surfaces.

 

That all being said, if you're going to make this again 16'x7' with no overhang, then the small 1 5/8" metal studs should do. Skip all the diagonal pieces in your diagram.

I suggest using coroplast (corrugated plastic sheets) with the corrugation running across the joists, as it were, so they run perpendicular to the inner joists.

THEN put a second skin on the bottom side. If you can get all this together with screws, you should have a very rigid surface.

 

I would further suggest that you solid block wherever the legs are going with wood. So a corner block in each corner, and as needed anywhere else.

 

If you're going to attach to a wall somehow, use a cleat against the wall with a piano hinge, and hinge the legs so they fold down when it's up.

 

And if you really want to make this easier on you - use a pulley system to raise and lower it. Of course, if you do that you might not even have to build a whole new table.

Hi Mike,

 

Thank you for getting back to me and all the info.  

 

I've never heard of Coroplast. I searched for it and found some at Home Depot but it's only .125" thick. Is that what you're talking about? Doesn't seem like that would add much. It looks like the largest size I'm finding is 24" x 48". Would using so many small pieces defeat the structural purpose?  

 

My problem with enclosing the bottom is that is where all the wiring is going to be for all the power taps. Although I guess once everything is up and running I could seal up the bottom. I'm wondering if that 1/8" Masonite would work. The 1" XPS only weighs about 2 pounds and I'd have 4 of them as the table top. The Masonite weighs in at about 20 pounds per sheet, so 80 pounds total per side, or 160 pounds if I did the top and bottom. 

 

I had originally thought about hinging it to the wall but my ceiling isn't high enough, plus I have the garage door tracks to contend with. At 7' wide it will tilt up and be just below the door track. 

 

I also looked at a winch type system to life the table up but once again I have both the garage door track and a central beam that runs the width of the garage. Plus, I have those racks that attach to the ceiling for storage. So that idea won't work. Hence, the table that has to tilt up for storage. 

 

I was going to sandwich a piano hinge between 2 studs (mounted face to face) where the legs would go and then screw those two studs together. Then attach the leg to the piano hinge. That would give me double the strength of a single stud. I was also going to use a pair of studs to form "X" braces between the legs. 

 

If you have any information on the Coroplast please let me know. 

 

Joe

[Alchemist]

Hi Joe,

 

Here's a link to Coroplast:

 

https://www.coroplast.com/

 

Hope this helps!

 

Ernie

[OCJoeR]

Thanks Ernie. But it looks like I'd have to buy a pallet of stuff from them.    I see Amazon has the stuff but only in the smaller sizes. I sent them an email asking of there are retailers near me. 

[Alchemist]

Joe,

 

Since Coroplast is a brand name of corrugated plastic, I came across this YouTube video of someone fabricating a table from corrugated plastic and thought it might provide some direction, should you decide to employ corrugated plastic in your project.

 

 

Hope it helps.

 

Ernie

[OCJoeR]

Hey Ernie,

 

Thanks for the video. It's hard to tell from the video if he's laminated multiple thin sheets together to form the legs or if each leg is that thick. In either case I still have to locate some place to purchase larger sheets. It also looks like he's holding the parts together with zip ties. That obviously isn't going to work for a large table. I'll keep searching for larger sheets. I may make a run over to Home Depot and take a look at the 4' x 8' sheet of 4 mm stuff. It's about the same price as the 1" XPS foam board I'm looking at. 

 

Joe

[OCJoeR]

I went to the YouTube channel for that video. Looks like he laminates multiple sheets to make his projects. He has a shoe rack made with single sheets to hold the shoes and from what I can see the weight of the shoes makes the sheet sag. I've put some weights on the 1" XPS foam board and it doesn't look like it sags anywhere near as much as this stuff. I'm not sure why they're saying it's more structurally sound than the XPS.  

[OCJoeR]

ok somewhere in my past I have a degree in architectural technlogy, and I have some knowledge of metal studs.

 

I looked at your diagram, and I would suggest that you're overbuilding the table. Further, I don't believe your insulation board will give you any kind of structural strength. The metal studs by themselves, although strong, have a tendency to twist. The strength when using them is to have them sandwiched between two rigid surfaces.

 

That all being said, if you're going to make this again 16'x7' with no overhang, then the small 1 5/8" metal studs should do. Skip all the diagonal pieces in your diagram.

I suggest using coroplast (corrugated plastic sheets) with the corrugation running across the joists, as it were, so they run perpendicular to the inner joists.

THEN put a second skin on the bottom side. If you can get all this together with screws, you should have a very rigid surface.

 

I would further suggest that you solid block wherever the legs are going with wood. So a corner block in each corner, and as needed anywhere else.

 

If you're going to attach to a wall somehow, use a cleat against the wall with a piano hinge, and hinge the legs so they fold down when it's up.

 

And if you really want to make this easier on you - use a pulley system to raise and lower it. Of course, if you do that you might not even have to build a whole new table.

Morning Mike,

 

I'm still looking for some place locally I can go get the Coroplast. The only place I've found 4' x 8' sheets is The Home Depot but it's only 4mm thick. Is that going to give any structural support? 

 

The reason I put the diagonals in the frame was to try and prevent it from flexing diagonally. But I guess if I find some material, Coroplast or otherwise, and sandwich the studs between them, that issue would go away. Would 1/8" Masonite provide the support and rigidity? I suppose the additional 60 pounds wouldn't be that difficult to lift. I've thought about closing in the bottom and I'm thinking it wouldn't be that difficult once I completed all the wiring. If I were to use self tapping screws and attach the Masonite to every joist and all along the perimeter that should keep everything in line. Then maybe the 4 mm Coroplast on the top wouldn't have to give it that much structural support. 

 

Joe

[Racer36]

Hi Dennis,

 

The studs I've seen are 25 gauge. I'll have to look into those stiffeners, I hadn't thought about that. 

 

Joe

Hi Joe,

I would be using 18 gauge 3 5/8 stud for the perimeter, and use 20 gauge for interior bracing.

the corner stiffeners I mentioned are usually used to give a half wall or knee wall some rigidity.

[OCJoeR]

Thanks Dennis. I'll check with the supplier and see how much those to cost. 

[OCJoeR]

My current track has 3/8" plywood "walls" going around the entire table. In the front where the track is directly on the table I made it 6" high so it comes about 3" above the table top. At the back, where the track rises about 4" for the overpass, I have a  12" wall. This is to keep the cars from flying off the table when one of the kids forgets he's not on his digital video thing where going too fast only means that you start again and not have to go chase down your car. My plan on the new track was to use 1/8" Masonite for this wall. Since the Masonite will be screwed into the entire perimeter of the table would I even need to go to an 18 gauge stud? Wouldn't attaching the Masonite to a 25 gauge stud give it plenty of rigidity? 

[OCJoeR]

ok somewhere in my past I have a degree in architectural technlogy, and I have some knowledge of metal studs.

 

I looked at your diagram, and I would suggest that you're overbuilding the table. Further, I don't believe your insulation board will give you any kind of structural strength. The metal studs by themselves, although strong, have a tendency to twist. The strength when using them is to have them sandwiched between two rigid surfaces.

 

That all being said, if you're going to make this again 16'x7' with no overhang, then the small 1 5/8" metal studs should do. Skip all the diagonal pieces in your diagram.

I suggest using coroplast (corrugated plastic sheets) with the corrugation running across the joists, as it were, so they run perpendicular to the inner joists.

THEN put a second skin on the bottom side. If you can get all this together with screws, you should have a very rigid surface.

 

I would further suggest that you solid block wherever the legs are going with wood. So a corner block in each corner, and as needed anywhere else.

 

If you're going to attach to a wall somehow, use a cleat against the wall with a piano hinge, and hinge the legs so they fold down when it's up.

 

And if you really want to make this easier on you - use a pulley system to raise and lower it. Of course, if you do that you might not even have to build a whole new table.

Morning Mike,

 

I've been rethinking my aversion to closing up the under side of the table. Of course that thinking was done around 2 in the morning after waking up with the grandkids last night so I'm not vouching for the feasibility of any of this but, given your area of expertise I though I'd ask. 

 

What if I laid out the frame using 16' studs on the long sides and 7' ones along the 16s for the width every 2'. Then added 2' sections between the 7' ones every 21" for support of the XPS foamboard.  If I screwed 1/8" Masonite to the bottom I could do all the wiring from the top. I could use the holes on the old table top to mark out where they need to be on the XPS foam board and cut the holes. I could then pass the wires through the holes in the XPS and then glue the XPS to the studs. I'm not sure I'd need to use screws too. I've found plastic "fender" washers that I could use so the screws don't go through the XPS if I was going to use them. 

 

My question is would the combination of Masonite screwed to the bottom and the XPS either glued or glued and screwed to the top give the whole thing enough rigidity so that it could be lifted up and down without it bending. Again, I'd have the same type of legs, with the curved backs, on which to tilt the whole thing. I found 6' piano hinges that I would use to attach the legs to the bottom of the table. I'd use truss head, fine thread self tapping screws to go through the Masonite and the studs that will be at 4' and 12" so that there would be 4' on each side of each leg, just like I have them now. I was also thinking about using a stud to make a brace that would go from the middle stud on the table to each leg bottom at the front and back of the legs. That would hold the legs securely. 

 

Thanks for any help or suggestions, 

Joe

[OCJoeR]

I've been thinking about the idea of hanging the track from the ceiling again, especially since the track would be a lot lighter with the steel studs and XPS and Masonite. I went out there this morning to see if there was any way to fit it up there and unfortunately unless I get rid of a whole bunch of boxes of "stuff" that is stored in the racks that are attached to the ceiling it just can't fit. I've even looked into those garage door openers that go on the side of the doors rather than hung from the ceiling but they're hundreds of dollars. Plus, I literally just put a new belt drive opener in so I'm not going to replace that. I also looked at hinging it from one of the walls but unless I cut down the width from the current 7' to maybe 4' it won't work with the ceiling height. The hinge mechanism would have to be at least 30" off the floor which again runs into the problem with either the door track or the racks. Another issue with that type of track is reaching any cars that would come off the track in the middle of the section that is attached to the wall. 

 

If anyone has any other thoughts on how to do that let me know. 

 

Anyway, I'm going to start on the new track after the holidays when things slow down a bit. I'll try and remember to take lots of pictures and post them. 

 

Joe 

[Alchemist]

Hi Joe,

 

Here is an alternative to Coroplast;  this product is called Bubble-X:  https://www.primexpl...s.com/bubble-x/

 

I read that it offers a smoother surface than Coroplast and has other advantages when compared to Coroplast.

 

I don't know how readily available it is though and haven't seen the pricing structure but it looks like something I'd want to look into for when I fabricate another track.

 

Thanks.

 

Ernie

[Alchemist]

Here are a few videos of people that have their track lifts:

 

This video show how to provide support to your table for hoisting:  

 

This slot car track lift inside his "playroom" is quite ingenious:  

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UxhXnp1mcg

 

 

Hope it helps with ideas and inspiration Joe!

 

Ernie

[Alchemist]

Hi Joe,

 

It seems my Home Depot Store stocks Bubble-X and wonder if your neighborhood Home Services Store might have it in stock!?:

 

About This Product

Bubble-X is manufactured with a patented technology of unique air-bubble construction to create a rigid lightweight sheet that has a smooth matte finish. Bubble-X properties can make your project more durable, and cost effective. Used as an alternative to plywood, it carries the added benefit of being easy to clean and weatherable, with no warping or splintering. Sheets can be easily fabricated by routing, cutting and shaping with common cutting tools. This product is most commonly used for truck and trailer lining, wall and floor protection, and weatherable outdoor racking and shelving. Any applications that require high strength-to-weight ratios.

Highlights

• Lightweight plywood, MDF, particle board alternative
• Three layer construction
• Rigid and flat
• Excellent compression strength
• Moisture, chemical and weather resistant
• Non-toxic and hypoallergenic
• Double-sided, smooth matte finish
• Eco-friendly, 100% recyclable polypropylene

 

Ernie

 

[OCJoeR]

Hey Ernie,

 

Yeah, they're all great inspiration. Unfortunately, as I said, my problem is I have to be able to get the cars in the garage and with the storage racks, center beam and door opener I just don't have the room. 

 

 

You can see my current track on the side of the car. It's 7' to the top of it. My car isn't the problem. Mama has an SUV that is much taller and just won't fit under the track given how much lower the bottom of the track would be in the raised position. If we didn't have all that crap, I'm sorry, treasures, that we need the storage racks for I'd be able to put it in the back section of the garage. The garage has a 10' ceiling so there'd be no problem. 

 

Joe

[OCJoeR]

 

Hi Joe,

 

It seems my Home Depot Store stocks Bubble-X and wonder if your neighborhood Home Services Store might have it in stock!?:

 

About This Product

Bubble-X is manufactured with a patented technology of unique air-bubble construction to create a rigid lightweight sheet that has a smooth matte finish. Bubble-X properties can make your project more durable, and cost effective. Used as an alternative to plywood, it carries the added benefit of being easy to clean and weatherable, with no warping or splintering. Sheets can be easily fabricated by routing, cutting and shaping with common cutting tools. This product is most commonly used for truck and trailer lining, wall and floor protection, and weatherable outdoor racking and shelving. Any applications that require high strength-to-weight ratios.

Highlights

• Lightweight plywood, MDF, particle board alternative
• Three layer construction
• Rigid and flat
• Excellent compression strength
• Moisture, chemical and weather resistant
• Non-toxic and hypoallergenic
• Double-sided, smooth matte finish
• Eco-friendly, 100% recyclable polypropylene

 

Ernie

 

 

Yeah, but it's $70 a sheet!!!  

[Alchemist]

Hi Joe,

 

I just thought the videos might be helpful and could lead you to discover an alternative that would work for you.

 

That usually happens for me.

 

Good luck and I apologize for the "run-around".

 

Ernie

[OCJoeR]

I've found a supplier who has 1/4" sanded birch plywood for $22/sheet. They weigh 20 pounds each, that makes 160 pounds if I use them for both the top and bottom. If I use screw them to the bottom and use the 1" XPS foam glued to the top anyone think that's enough to keep everything from flexing? That would take 80 pounds off the weight. The Masonite is almost as heavy, coming in at 16 pounds a sheet. I'd rather just use the plywood on the top if I was going to go with a more solid material and then put any foam board on that for the hills and other landscape. Anyone know if Sculptamold, either the commercial stuff or the DIY stuff, will hold onto bare plywood? 

[OCJoeR]

Hi Joe,

 

I apologize for the waste of your time.

 

I just thought the videos could lead you to discover an alternative that would work for you.

 

That usually happens for me.

 

Good luck and I apologize once again for the "run-around".

 

Ernie

Hey Ernie,

 

They were great to watch. If at some point I can get rid of a lot of stuff in the garage I'd definitely take that route. A Harbor Freight winch, a hand full of pulleys, some cable and poof, it's out of the way. Believe me I've been in the garage looking at every angle to see if I could make it work. If I made the overpass lower, so the cars would just clear it, I was thinking that might work, but then I realized with those racks there's no way to run the cable from the ceiling to the track. I even thought about trying to use a winch and cables to lift the table into the position I have it now. Same problem. Then I thought about some kind of hydraulic lift that could be attached to the back of the table so when I tilted it down the back also raised up but couldn't figure out the engineering. 

 

If I had a bigger back yard I'd build another shed and move that stuff out there. However, the one shed I have now for all the Christmas decorations barely fit in the yard. 

 

I think I'm stuck with making one similar to what I have now that tilts up and out of the way of the cars. I just need to have it rigid enough so it doesn't bend but light enough so my 77 year old body can lift it up. 

 

Joe