21 replies to this topic

[Josh Crutchfield]

Is it now legal to use keyed parts in chassis building?

[Matt Sheldon]

From what I know, it has to be a commercially available chassis kit and/or components. Except for original Slick 7 motor brackets of course, LOL.

[Dominator]

Keyed parts are still not allowed.

[Josh Crutchfield]

The body mounts are keyed.

 

[Matt Sheldon]

Slots for the tabs also appear to be EDM cut. 

 

[Jimmy Williams]

Didn't realize that, my bad. It's a very simple fix.

 

Been working behind the scenes to get chassis kits ready to sell but have been making some for people in the mean time. Of course they need to be available, and I can assure you there are several chassis mfgs that have laser cut parts that are not trying to make them commercially available.

[Racer36]

Keyed parts are still not allowed

 

So now what? Jimmy has acknowledged what I trust was an oversight on his part, but how do racers move forward? There are obviously a group of chassis out there that do not comply with the rules. What does the board suggest happen now? Will a waiver be issued due to the fact that this was not caught in tech by any board member over the last several years? Why wasn’t it caught?

 

You will remember the situation where Andrew Ford built a number of chassis that were not compliant, and all those were fixed before they were able to be used in competition.

[Cap Henry]

In the past, it has been up to the owners/ builders to make them compliant.

With the way Jimmy builds the cars it wouldn't be much work to unsolder the old mounts and solder an R-Geo or Swiss pin tube mount on. Or whatever he comes up with.

But that being said, rule 2B seems to be getting missed/ignored. And not just in Jimmy's case either.

[Jimmy Williams]

Like I said, its a simple fix. I'll be working behind the scenes to remedy it. No need for pitchforks like in every other retro related thread online.

[Martin]

I have no skin in the game, but are keyed parts a performance advantage?  If No why would they be illegal ? 

 

Are they just a convenient way to locate parts while soldering? 

[Cap Henry]

Slick 7 had a kit that could be built without a jig, I believe it was to prevent us racing brass euro sports.

[Dominator]

 

So now what? Jimmy has acknowledged what I trust was an oversight on his part, but how do racers move forward? There are obviously a group of chassis out there that do not comply with the rules. What does the board suggest happen now? Will a waiver be issued due to the fact that this was not caught in tech by any board member over the last several years? Why wasn’t it caught?

 

You will remember the situation where Andrew Ford built a number of chassis that were not compliant, and all those were fixed before they were able to be used in competition.

Jimmy has agreed to fix it.  I have no idea how many of these have been made.  I don't recall seeing any at the checkpoint.  

 

Jimmy has agreed to have these fixed by Palooza.  I'll put a post out.

[Martin]

In post #4 there is a chassis with 4 piano wires that key into the front part of the chassis, is that not keyed?

 

Maybe I do not know what the term "keyed" means. 

 

Can someone explain what the problem is. Don't keyed parts make life easier? 

[Jay Guard]

Martin:

Keyed construction is when you have a flat feature, like a front or rear axle upright, inserted into a 3 or 4 sided slot/hole.  This is how Wire EDM and Laser cut chassis' are typically designed.  GT-12, Euro Sport, and Wing cars all have this construction style but this was never a "thing" back in the day, which is what Retro cars are supposed to emulate.  And yes, it does make assembly much easier, but in this case that's not the point.  Hope this helps.

[Dominator]

Martin, here is an example of keyed components.  The area's circled make up the motor bracket that are joined with tabs to make a three sided motor bracket.  Basically any two pieces that are machined to fit tightly together.

 

[Martin]

Thanks Jay and Dominic, so in retro racing I assume you want chassis to to made they were in the 60's ?  

 

Can you post a pic of a legal retro chassis. All I could find was conversations about what was IRRA legal.   

 

I build and restore original vintage chassis, have done for 50years. I did read the rules that were posted and I honestly could not build a chassis that I could be sure would be legal. Is it confusing to other would be new competitors or do they just buy a chassis, is that legal? 

 

I would think it best if I saw a pic and just copy that. Who makes these production parts that are legal? 

 

Is this a legal chassis (below) where the main 4 rails are cut (keyed) to the front section?

And what is the part that looks like a rod cut and fit just ahead of the front axle. Is that considered keyed?

 

[Dominator]

Here's a pic of a recent F1 I built

[Jay Guard]

Martin:

The picture of the chassis you showed is an excellent example of keyed construction.  Specifically near the outer edges of the side pans where there are small inserted pieces of flat stock to hold pin tubes.  The place up front where the piano wire is emplaced in the front of the chassis bares a closer  look and IMO is really pushing the envelope.

[Martin]

Thanks Jay and thanks Dominic for the pic.

 

If IRRA wants a true retro class why not just say no modern methods of manufacturing, no EDM no Lazer or water jet cutting.

 

Would that not be inline with the spirit of the class? 

 

Here is a chassis I built for a vintage F1 class 20 years ago. 16d and sealed can motors were legal.

 

Would this be legal if it had the sealed motor?

 

 

[Jimmy Williams]

Rules state the joining of brass sheet, strip, or plate. Nothing about piano wire. If that were the case then lots of kits and general chassis builders would be failing tech.

 

I thought this thread was over, a problem was identified and a solution was made.

[slotcarone]

Most recent Retro chassis from every builder has piano wire soldered into a slot or recess in the brass typically Has always been legal.

[Jay Guard]

Jimmie, et, al:

As far as I'm concerned this case is closed.  Nothing more to see here.