32 replies to this topic

[IRRA Retro Racing]

Due to feedback from racers and series leaders from the various regions the BoD has agreed to keep the current stock car body thickness and weight specs.

 

Bodies must continue to be pulled from .015' material, measure at least .012' on the hood and roof, .008" on the sides (this includes the windows without any tint or film), and weigh a minimum of 10.0 grams. Adding liquid mask, shoe goo, or other similar items to build up body thickness is not permitted. Adding lead or lead tape to bodies to increase weight is not permitted.

 

Note:

The new rear bumper/panel size, trimming of rear wheel wells, and min/max height of the bodies will still go into effect on Sept 1.  
 
We appreciate the feedback and apologize to anyone who this has upset.
 
(Posted by Dom Luongo)

[blue&orange]

Unless I have 3 rogue DDS bodies, the Daytona does not have a rear spoiler, and the measurement from top of trunk to bumper cut line is only 1/2", or .500, and in no way can meet the suggested .750 spoiler to bottom of bumper measurement suggested in the new rules modifications.  Am I wrong?

[samreight]

so if the body isn't 10 grams and gets kicked out of tech your not allowed to do anything to it to add weight. your done and can't race.   

[blue&orange]

Hey Sam, we all know it is the duty of the racer to present to tech, at any race, a car that is legal.  With the help of a few simple tools -- calipers, caliper extensions to reach into the body, a small scale, a basic ruler -- any racer should be able to present a legal retro stock car body to tech and not be concerned with being "kicked out of tech."  If we have questions in the run-up to a race -- like my question above about the DDS Daytona body -- a racer usually can find someone to ask.  You may recall I did exactly this when I prepared an Oleg Chaparral 2D body for retro coupe which, because of the body shape, did not fit the rear body regulation.  I posted the picture and question here on Slotblog, and no less than Dom gave it a thumbs up.  P.S.  I haven't been brave enough to run it yet.

[Jay Guard]

Unless I have 3 rogue DDS bodies, the Daytona does not have a rear spoiler, and the measurement from top of trunk to bumper cut line is only 1/2", or .500, and in no way can meet the suggested .750 spoiler to bottom of bumper measurement suggested in the new rules modifications.  Am I wrong?

Chris:

You can ignore the rear cut lines, just meet the .750" from the top rear edge (or spoiler) of the body down to the bottom of the body/bumper.

[Gil Aubin]

so if the body isn't 10 grams and gets kicked out of tech your not allowed to do anything to it to add weight. your done and can't race.   

 

As I read the rules, you cannot use tape to achieve legal body thickness, nor can you add lead tape to achieve minimum weight.  But I do believe that you may add strapping tape to reinforce weak areas of the body, to make sure the interior is firmly in place, or to add additional reinforcement around pin holes.  I may have too much time on my hands, but I have found that I can add/remove up to 0.4 grams by using shorter or longer pins.  Replacing the interior with a thicker or thinner version can easily change the body weight by a full gram. I am not saying that any of these suggestions are good solutions, but I do believe that they are all legal under strict interpretation of the minimum weight rule.

[blue&orange]

I'm trying not to be a pain here.  It seems either I have rogue DDS bodies or the IRRA people who are responding have not seen a DDS Daytona body.  I have tried to attach 2 pictures.  The body is trimmed to the cut line on sides and front and then cut straight across the back.  The max measurement from the top of the trunk to the level cut is only 5/8" -- the bumper cut line is actually higher.  Therefore, the new rule for the fall requiring a body that has .750" from spoiler to bottom of bumper would mean the DDS Daytona would be illegal.  That is what I'm trying to call attention to.

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[Cap Henry]

Dont use the cut line on the back, use you ruler and make a line .750 from the deck lid.

[blue&orange]

If I did that then the rear of the body would be BELOW the rest of the body and probably drag on the track.  Look at the pictures again.  The DDS Daytona does not have a spoiler at the rear -- the rear of the body slopes down.  The first picture shows the body sitting level on the plate -- the front and sides are cut on the cut line, and the rear is cut level with that.  The second picture shows that rear measurement to be about 5/8".  I have added a third picture (didn't come out the best) to show that that the DDS Daytona, from deck to bumper cut line, is basically 1/2" or .500".

 

There is already a different rear height for the Daytona in the proposed revision.  What I'm saying is that the deck to bumper measurement needs to take into account the lower Daytona body.  It can't be .750.

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[Jay Guard]

Chris:

I see what you are saying but the mistake you are making is first cutting the sides of the body on the cut line

 

Ignore the cut lines from behind the front wheel well rearward.  You will have to come up with your own new side cut lines and then mount the upper rear edge of your body to meet the new regulations.  For the Daytona only it is between 1.0"-1.250." from the rear top edge to the tech block. Only then measure down .750" from the top edge and cut the lower edge of the body ("bumper") there.  I don't have a DDS Daytona on hand to check but try this, it should work.

 

BTW...The body that you've already cut should be legal until the new regulations go into effect Sept. 1st so you haven't ruined a body.

[blue&orange]

My understanding is that the rear height rule is to prevent serious wedging of the body.  Now you are saying I have to figure out how to wedge a Daytona body, meaning coming up with a random cut line.  How many bodies would I have to cut and mount until I hit the magic number?  Here's a better solution, which I suggested above:  since the Daytona has a different height regulation, have a complimentary bumper measurement, which would look to be .500 by the DDS cut line.

 

Maybe the IRRA Board shouldn't have approved the DDS Daytona body -- but you did.  Now you are trying to close the barn door after the cows are out.  I understand the rear bumper regulation to prevent racers from removing too much material from the rear, but the fact that the Daytona body does not have a rear spoiler and has a different rear deck profile should inform the bumper regulation for that body, not the regulation making the racer wedge the body artificially.  That's just nuts!

 

Why don't you just suggest to Dan Ebert that he re-do his mold with new cut lines that would meet your regulation?  Because you know what he would tell you, just as he did when you proposed changing the pull thickness.

 

It's this simple -- .500 for Daytona.

[Eddie Fleming]

With this rule none of the Charger bodies I ever used can be cut on the molded line. The rear spoiler does not come out high enough for the rules. 

 

That is not really a problem. I am just saying the Daytona is not the only body with this issue. 

[Racer36]

I’ve got a properly mounted DDS Daytona here, and I get what Chris is saying. The rear of mine is 1.050 off the tech block. It is already trimmed at the rear, so will not conform to the new rule, but it’s obvious that if it was .750 the lower edge would be way below the axle centreline, which has always been a no no ( see Jay Guard .406 rule debacle).

can someone on the board please clarify what the intent is?

there is no way to be under 1.250, have a .750 rear valance, and be above axle centreline.

[Dominator]

I'll take a look at one of the DDS Daytona again this week.   Please give me a day or two. 

[Paul5097]

I have 2 RTR Charger bodies and 1 VFC charger body, all cut on the cut lines with the bottom edge on the body mounted flush with the bottom of the chassis, the body level, yet none of them would meet the rear height restriction. They are about 1 inch measured from the tech block to the top of the spoiler. They only way I can see to meet height is to mount the body with some rake to raise the spoiler to the minimum of 1.25". I need guidance.

 

Also, some of our local racers use bodies other than a charger. Is there a body height rule for them?

[Jay Guard]

Paul:

The new body rules don't take effect until September 1st, so the ones you have now should be legal to use until then.

 

In addition we are looking at a few of the other lesser used bodies and checking to see if the new rules will work for them too.

 

Stay tuned for any updates, but until then you should be good to go.

[Gil Aubin]

If the concern is excessive rake, is a minimum height a necessity?

[John Luongo]

heres a thought: how about body manufacturers mold bodies with cut lines and wheel wells where they should be to enable unskilled racers like myself, to cut, trim and mount a body without worrying about it passing tech. once a body has been irra approved, there shouldnt be any question of its passing tech. post race, spot check 3 out of the top 5 finishers body thickness for compliance. that way tech time can be speeded up and simplyfied. my 2 cents.

[Jay Guard]

If the concern is excessive rake, is a minimum height a necessity?

Hi Gil:

We are trying to eliminate cars having a "slammed" look which the Nascar cars of the late sixties never had, in fact they usually had a significant forward rake.

[Jay Guard]

heres a thought: how about body manufacturers mold bodies with cut lines and wheel wells where they should be to enable unskilled racers like myself, to cut, trim and mount a body without worrying about it passing tech. once a body has been irra approved, there shouldnt be any question of its passing tech. post race, spot check 3 out of the top 5 finishers body thickness for compliance. that way tech time can be speeded up and simplyfied. my 2 cents.

John:

We are hoping once the Stockcar body rules are finalized the manufacturers will change the cut lines to work with the new specs.  This is actually a very easy mod to their molds so it should be in their best interest to do this.

[blue&orange]

So now we FINALLY have insight.  Per Jay, the IRRA Board is trying to eliminate "slammed" cars and is considering asking the manufacturers to change their molds so we have raked bodies.  So all we need is RTR, DDS, VFC, Kelly, Parma and Red Fox to say "NO" and we will be able to stop this insanity.  I currently have 10 stock car bodies in my stash from various manufacturers and will be very disappointed if I have to trash them because somewhere, in some retro series, they are allowing slammed bodies.  And please don't tell me the rules don't go into effect until next September.  Retro East is done stock car for the season, and I don't attend the three summer events.  Even with a new body for each race I have enough for at least the next two seasons.  How many racers are like me; and how many raceways have bodies on the wall that will be obsolete?  Now THAT would be going back to the late '60's!

[Cap Henry]

If youre running a IRRA stock car and cutting the body on the line, it looks slammed, compared to what real stock cars from the time looked like. Thats what Jay was saying.

To be competitive in retro stock car, guys arent cutting them on the line. You lower the nose down below the line and raise the back up above the line.

None of the current bodies will be obsoleted, you can cut the bodies that already exist to meet the rules, just not using the cut line. Nothing says you have to cut a body on the cut line.

[Jay Guard]

Yep, what Cap said!!

[Dominator]

Chris the horizontal cut lines are a guide, not a requirement to follow.  Most racers rake the body so the rear tires clear while trimming along the fender line.  In some cases raking and slamming of the body was getting extreme so this is why we came out with a min/max rear height on the Charger bodies.  As of September you will be able to trim the rear wheel wells out so makes it even easier for mounting and tire clearance.   

 

The added dimensions were geared towards the Chargers as this is the most commonly used body with the Daytona being second.  

 

Paul, we are looking at some of the other stock car bodies with molded in spoilers to see if the same min/max height and rear bumper/panel dimensions can be used to eliminate any potential confusion.   I'm going to a race this weekend to look at some of the bodies on the wall to confirm this.  

 

**Update dimensions for the Daytona

• Min/Max height 3/4"-1"
• Rear bumper/panel 1/2"

[Tim Wood]

What available stock car bodies are there now . I am only interested in chargers. At Piranha right now we only have DDS.  Not a fan.

Thanks