13 replies to this topic

[Mr. M]

Today at a monthly Vero Beach race, there were two 12 Cobalt entries and four brushless, I think 11kV with carbon fiber chassis. The best brushless cars qualified at 2.25 sec, the two 12C were 2.35 and 2.45 sec, I think.

 

By the middle end of the first heat, two of the brushless cars were out with broken cars. By the end of the second heat, the other two brushless cars were out. They came back on and off, with one finishing way back. When one of the brushless cars finished a whole heat, it was about 5 laps ahead for the heat. So overall finish was C12, C12, BL, BL, BL, BL, with three cars finishing. And the two C12 cars finished 10 laps apart.

 

I give the guys running the 2two fastest brushless a lot of kudos, they were prepared, and going up against two guys with 40 years hard experience and very mature cars. But bottom line, the brushless cars have a long way to go in this kind of wing car racing.

 

It was a tough day for the brushless guys.

[Bill Seitz]

I suppose the reason that 11000KV motors were raced against C12 motors is that this was what was locally available. This match-up gives a sizable advantage in RPM performance to the 11000KV motors, so it's no surprise they were faster. A G27/27Lite would be a closer RPM performance equivalent to 11000KV but still probably at a small disadvantage.

[Mr. M]

There are no G27 racers locally, so the C12 and BL went together.

[Mr. M]

Follow up. This months C12 race had 5 entries. Four brushed and 1 brushless. The brushless car did not make it through the first heat. One of the C12 cars was out about 2/3rd of the way through. The brushless car was a 6500 kV. And Group F or whatever we call it now went brushless with 4500 kV. There were 8 entries, all brushless except me with a can motor, I didn’t get the memo it seems. All finished except 1 brushless car.

[Hot Slots]

I heard the track prep was almost like the drag strip shut down. Why does the Gerding need so much glue? Or why does that track get prepped that way.

Those Brushless guys test every Sunday, with a normal track prep, they bang out 2.40 lap times for 3 minutes straight.

The Wing series comes to town and the glue goes down so heavy the ESC's and Motors have failures,from cogging because of the amount of glue.

I'm asking for a Friend

What's all the GLUE needed for?

[Mr. M]

Yes, the spray glue was way heavier than we usually see, and it was hard for everybody. I don’t know what the reason was behind this, but everybody had the same. The race with the 4500 kVs ran fine for almost everybody first thing in the morning. The track changed all day from Friday all through all day Saturday and you had to adapt. We always request the same spray glue for every wingcar race, without it, there is a lot more crashing. This one was more on the side of bog than not. You have to adapt to stay in the game.

[Hot Slots]

You don't adapt to a track by spraying more glue, you adapt by changing tires.

So your telling me instead of setting your car up to standard track conditions. you need more glue, so your ill handling cars would stick to the track.

I'm asking for a friend

So to get a Wing Car to handle, you need to spray more glue on the track until your car stays on thru the turns?

[Mr. M]

No not true, there was nothing added to the track from the time the first racers arrived Friday. Everybody had to adjust to increasing rubber as the day wore on. I saw body changes, front weight, tire compounds, tire width, tire manufacturer, hub size changes. Pretty normal changes for wing cars. The track is usually cleaned in the turns and sprayed sometime before the race weekend so that the track conditions are near the same every time. I don’t know the details of exactly what was done this time, it’s up to the track owner. Wing cars always run in heavier glue than weekly rentals or racers. I resent the ill handling car dig. You adapt the cars to the track on race day. I am not sure what you are getting at, the 4500 kV first race had no issues practicing or getting around the track with typical lap times and laps. The C12 race with I think 1 6500kV did not go well for the brushless car. If your issue is with track prep different than weekly, this is pretty typical for large events stamped steel or wingcar.

[Hot Slots]

Yes, the spray glue was way heavier than we usually see, and it was hard for everybody. I dont know what the reason was behind this, but everybody had the same. The race with the 4500 kVs ran fine for almost everybody first thing in the morning. The track changed all day from Friday all through all day Saturday and you had to adapt. We always request the same spray glue for every wingcar race, without it, there is a lot more crashing. This one was more on the side of bog than not. You have to adapt to stay in the game.

The Spray Glue was way heavier than we usually see.


I never said they kept spraying the track.

I was asking for a friend why the initial track prep was so heavy.

Do you have to spray the glue so heavy to make a wing car stick in the turn vs adopting to a normal prepped track?

It's a Gerding King Track how much glue do you need to get around it, it's not the fastest Gerding around but the track is pretty solid.

Why was the initial prep so thick?

I was hoping maybe Jeff, Mike , Joe, or Tommy had some insight into the initial track prep.

[Bill Seitz]

Wing cars can run under the same conditions as any other slot car, they just require being setup for that. In fact, a wing car will generally out-perform any other type slot car with less glue thanks to the increased aero downforce. It's all a matter of setup. Why was there so much glue? I ask this question myself sometimes when my wing cars are too stuck. Apparently whoever applies the glue may get heavy-handed, or some other non-wing class prefers to have more glue. It also depends much on what tires are being used and how much rubber builds up. My wing cars actually work better when I don't have to deal with amounts of rubber and glue some of the non-wing classes prefer.

[Hot Slots]

Wing cars can run under the same conditions as any other slot car, they just require being setup for that. In fact, a wing car will generally out-perform any other type slot car with less glue thanks to the increased aero downforce. It's all a matter of setup. Why was there so much glue? I ask this question myself sometimes when my wing cars are too stuck. Apparently whoever applies the glue may get heavy-handed, or some other non-wing class prefers to have more glue. It also depends much on what tires are being used and how much rubber builds up. My wing cars actually work better when I don't have to deal with amounts of rubber and glue some of the non-wing classes prefer.

I concur,

I thought todays Wing Cars needed less glue as well.

The way I took the Track Prep was as if it was almost like a 90's race.

The Brushless Cars can't take the type of Prep that was put Down. It was causing Cogging issues and putting so much on the motors they were burning.

Hopefully the next Race has a normal track prep.

Regardless the local brushless guys will have harder tires next race.

The FLORIDA Wing Series Doesnt have the BALLS to clean and Spray it with a Normal Track Prep.

PRIDE and Reputations will be HURT, By a Local No Name Racer!!!

[Bill Seitz]

I remember racing when racers were allowed to apply glue to the track. I'm not sure it's possible to spray glue a track to that level of bog, though I've seen glue sprayed on top of glue and rubber which can get pretty sticky. Natural rubber also builds up on the track which the colored synthetic rubber didn't do, and many tracks today get much of their grip from the rubber buildup. I've seen tracks with so much rubber buildup there was actually a rubber ridge around the corners.

 

A sticky track may require narrowing the tires and gearing up to keep from overloading motors. The current trend leans toward aggressive gearing, so the motors are close to the breaking point under normal conditions with less margin for error.

[MSwiss]

I remember racing when racers were allowed to apply glue to the track. I'm not sure it's possible to spray glue a track to that level of bog, though I've seen glue sprayed on top of glue and rubber which can get pretty sticky.

I have at least once or twice in my 21 1/2 years as a raceway owner. LOL
 

[Mr. M]

Brandon, I think you are overlooking that the first race with the 4.5kV brushless motors had no issues with cogging, pulling through what was on the track. Most finished the race. The guys adapted the car setup and ran 2.8 to 3.0 laps throughout the whole race.