115 replies to this topic

[One27ray]

Hi guys,

Here is a first draft of one of Dave lenz car's, did modify it a little?..will paint it later.



I just set the body on a frame for looks..will need a really low chassis, like the one Rick did.



more later

i-ray

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Russel, my friend. What happened is that the airdams were illegal. Initially, in say the 69 and 70 national rules, the aircontrol was limited to "tabs and spoilers"....not unlike D3. I don't know the WHY part that led to the airdams getting legal in the bay area for the thingies, or later in about 73 for the LA area. In my circles the reasoning against airdams was the width rules. That is the car gets wider when it runs, and making a car wider mechanically when running was still a violation of the 3.25" rule.

Fate

[One27ray]

A correction to earlier comments by me on Vitter:

Dave did not only observe the "Twowinger & Onewinger" he actually raced them on the track At Finish Line raceway back in the day,(60's) .... A First person observation/racing is by the way..... as good as a wright up/picture Historical speeching. Historians have used the " First Person Observation " as evidence of historical matters thought recorded time. This usually isn't considered hear-say event's and is legal in a court of Law..how many people have been convicted by eyewitness testimony... So the conclusion that if isn't in a tabloid/picture/etc. it isn't valid....doesn't cut it
Again, that's my legal opinion

i-ray

[dc-65x]

My friends Rodney and Eric are and have been continuously and heavily involved San Francisco Bay Area slot racers since "The Dawn of Time". I'm a transplanted Los Angeles slot racer and we worshiped on the alter of Team Russkit. So I asked Rodney to clue us in on his experience racing in the Bay Area back in the day.

Rick,

Back in 1966-68 the state of the art slot car scene seemed to change every few months.

In the beginning of this period (1966), with Bay Area slot cars, people favored running formula or Indy-type cars. In fact, sports cars were few and far between during this time. The formula/Indy cars were built very light. The re-wound motors of the time were high winding with little torque. Motors were based on 16D and Hemi 300 motors. Power came from power supplies not batteries. The bodies were chopped fairly low.

When the 1-to-1 racing scene discovered aerodynamics, so did slot car racing. Choti bodies (1967) were a way to plant the simple inline formula cars. With their wedge shapes and kick up rear spoilers, down force was created. In my opinion, Choti bodies were a science experiment to lower lap times. Choti cars drove like modern wing cars. The bodies allowed faster cornering speeds as compared to the formula/Indy cars. They were very fast, but when they let go they really flew off the track. Not the easiest cars to race. LaCucarachas also occupied the tracks at this time.

One Saturday at Oakland Speedway, a local racer showed up with a Choti with large fins (as shown on Rick's sketch). Les the track owner turned on a lane to let the racer see how fast it would go. It was a good bit faster than a non-fin Choti. There was chatter among the other racers on why the fins made the car go faster. Talk was about stabilizing effects. No one understood at the time the resulting down force or venturi effect from the fins.

Eric remembers seeing a Choti car participating in a race at Alameda Speedway with huge kick up wedge fins with a Chaparral-type airfoil supported by the huge fins. The fins were similar in size to a modern wing car also.

Why did fins or wings disappear? My opinion is chassis design evolved into better- handling multi-rod chassis and soon after with floppy pans. New motors had torque along with high rpm. High motor torque pulled around these heavier cars at great rates of speed. Battery power came into use for these new motors. Also the Can Am cars of the time caught everyone's imagination. The angle winder revolution took hold (1968). Cars were easier to drive and looked great. Rules makers had sense to limit front spoiler (diaplane), rear spoiler and side wrap around spoiler size. Remember N.C.C. rules? Cars looked great and ran great. They were easy to drive, which made for great racing.

Huge fins made a comeback along with the use of copious amounts of tire glue. The L.A. boys, to the horror of the S.F. boys, cut the slot car bodies in half and kicked up the rears and added huge full-length fins or now known as wings (1972-3). Rules, what rules? Kind of ironic that the inventors of the Choti cars would be horrified by the "L.A. thingies".

An important comment from Eric:

The Bay area tracks were huge with long straights. Everyone wanted to go fast, no road courses here.

Regards,

Rodney

[One27ray]

That's a great first person account of what was happening in the Bay area during that time period . Coverage by the tabloids was far and few between at that time. So..a lot of people where not privy to this info, until it has come up on these forums. Which is awesome It would have been great to know this stuff back then Thank Rodney for his account...cool man. Well you know what they say..if you live long enough and............

i-ray

PS Choti designs,(and many others) are still cool by today's stantards..

[One27ray]

Test paint on the X-project G-3 Noda..what's the name of this version Choti ?











Something were change slightly, from the original, due to interpretation of the pic and/or perceived updates. Plus I see some other things that I would change ?? I noticed in the pic ?? that the front wheels must of been a tight fit along with the front axle ? will adapt that idea into the mold- central canopy could be lowered ? front guide area on body was raised to give this area a little more room for the frame guide. and ?????

i-ray

[Russell Sheldon]

Thank you very much, Rick (and Rodney and Eric). I think that this was an important development, which clearly links the evolution of thingies to modern day wing cars.

With kind regards,

Russell

[gascarnut]

Russell,

Didn't you work on some 1/32 bodies with moulded-in wings from one of the UK or US manufacturers at one point?

Something deep in my memory recalls either you or Gustav being involved with that.

What I do remember clearly was my opposition to the project (and to your flat drivers, but that's another story!)

[Russell Sheldon]

Dennis,

Yes. I got Trevor Crout - the 'T' in GT model, Gordon Tapsell being the 'G' - but by then (early 1980s) he had his own CAT bodies business, to make a couple of prototype bodies with the side dams moulded in. The problem was that they were too stiff; the side dams didn't flex outwards to create the surface area required to generate high enough levels of downforce.

Kind regards,

Russell

[gascarnut]

Thanks for the info, and for re-affirming that I still have a few neurons firing in sequence!

[One27ray]

Second revision,(on the right), of the Reptilian-noda concept design of a Choti original design a quick test paint & mounting to see how low....it can go......













changes on this revision: reduced canopy height/ lowered front guide extrusion/ added wheel wells in the inner dish area.
Added under cuts, on the outside wing plain.

This is a in-line version that I speculated was original designed to give the in-line motor set-up more room, so it could be slammed down really low.. Also, giving it the maximum air scooping affect

i-ray

[dc-65x]

Way Cool ! I like the look and shape of the Reptilian-noda. Very nice .

[One27ray]

The next up-date

Included changes are ...moved back the guide hump, did a roadster version, paint wheel wells areas to give a better idea. I'm sure one or two will be coming your way dc-65x















next change might be changing the guide bump

i-ray

[Maximo]

Rick,

I have been away for some time but have recently returned from exile and are back aggressively and passionately preparing new thingie project cars along with Jairus and Gene ZR1 as well as others massive talents and generous help.
I love this thread about Lenz and those wonderful thingie cars he built! I have long admired your work in recreating racers of old and now once again to see your craftsmanship applied to thingies is a stroke of magic to behold!

I too want to know what is that incredible blue bodied Lenz car featured earlier on. I can still also remember that fantasitc chassis that you built for King Edo a year back or so. I am still jealous!!!
Keep up this build and thread with new thingie stuff!

I am loving it....!

-Maximo

[dc-65x]

Thank you Maximo . I hope to take my Dave Lenz thingie to the Blue King track at Eddie's soon to let her rip. I want to build more thingies soon............so many slot cars to build and so little time.

Rick

[dc-65x]

I track tested 10 cars that I built here on Slotblog at Eddie's Slot Car World. All of them were run on the big banked Blue King.

First up:

The Dave Lenz - Choti Thingie









The Choti was wicked fast on the straights with its double wound, silver wire Lenz motor. It even ran fairly cool and had good brakes. Its aero body felt pretty planted in the turns but I think it needs some different tires. I tried modern black Alpha tires which had too much bite and made the car a little tippy. I also had some vintage blues that seemed fresh but they made the car a little too loose with not enough grip. I used modern Alpha blue tires on the other Thingie I tested, the Swift - Mura and they seemed a nice compromise. I'll grind some Alpha blues for the Choti. With the right tires and perhaps a little lead on the guide tongue this car will be a keeper in my "Shop Car Box".

Thanks for sharing this build with me

Onward.......

[havlicek]

Hi Rick,

That's such a cool car, it looks like it's going fast just sitting there. Glad to hear it really IS as fast as it looks!

-john

[endbelldrive]

Yah...it's good to hear that the motor and the car are keeping their cool. Have you tried the super soft vintage Cox braid in the guide to maybe take away some of that sproing-i-ness when things get light in the front? Perspiring minds want to know!

[One27ray]

Hey Rick,

I second those thoughts..one cool ride and motor I'd keep it too

I now have and idea how the chassis should look, and can attempt to do something with the brackets you sent me, thanks again, you know if you need something just let me know

i-ray

[dc-65x]

Yup John, it's quick . You must have been right when you thought the wire looked too big to be a D31 like what was scratched on the can. It jets.

Bob, I haven't tried the softer braid and the weight yet. I'll report back on that and the new Alpha blue rubber.

Thanks Ray. Please post some pictures of your chassis project when you get her going .

[TSR]

Rick,
I was pretty sure that with the good modern tires, these things would tilt. Indeed the CG of these cars is pretty high with most of the weight above the center of roll, and unless all the turns on the track are steeply banked, even with the fences, that won't be enough to keep them from turning upside down. The tires in the day were nowhere as good as they are today, and that can explain why those cars were good then, as tires with less grip would have allowed them to slide sufficiently. We re-learn history as we re-live it...

[havlicek]

Yup John, it's quick . You must have been right when you thought the wire looked too big to be a D31 like what was scratched on the can. It jets.

Hi Rick,

It says D32 on the can and while a 32 double could sure be a fast wind, that doesn't look at all like #32awg wire. Doesn't really matter as "the proof is in the pudding" and the only real way to know is to get it on the track like you did. I'd love to be there when you flog these things around the King at Eddie's to see all that beautiful(!) muscle burning-up tires, but it's kind of a long drive so I'll just wait for the reports from you

Those can-in-a-can magnet setups sure work well. I've done a couple of #26 awg FT16Ds with those (yeah I know it sounds stoopid on paper) and they always seem to be real monsters...coinkydink? Are those the magnets that came with the shim?

-john

[dc-65x]

............We re-learn history as we re-live it...

Yes Philippe, I guess that's why I enjoy recreating these old cars so much . I never know how they will behave until I get them on the track . I used some of the new Alpha blue donuts on my Swift-Mura Thingie and they worked perfectly. I'll cut some for this car and I think it will behave just the way they did back in the day .

Are those the magnets that came with the shim?

Hi John,

Yes, this is what came in his motor:



I haven't see the color coding before . The motor works really well, which make sense. Why would Dave Lenz keep a motor that didn't .

Anyhow, this car is a keeper. It will live its life in my "Shop Car Box" ready to demo 1960's "Thingiedom" on the Blue King. As Eddie's wife said as she saw it blasting around the track, "That's old school!"

Perfect.......

[havlicek]

As Eddie's wife said as she saw it blasting around the track, "That's old school!"

Perfect.......

She obviously "gets it" AND has exceptional taste

-john

[GTPJoe]

Hi Rick,

One look at this car and it's the one I would have tried first too!!

If you wanna stick with black tires the treated type might work good and give ya just that little slide it takes to corner fast..

Another beauty!!